Prayer ban at Katharine Birbalsingh’s school is lawful, High Court rules .

Yes, that's true. Sadly, the parent in this court case wasn't paying attention when she chose the school ...

29. The Claimant was initially put on the waiting list for a place at the School and her place was only confirmed shortly before Year 7 started. Her mother did not attend the School’s open days, or its welcome events for new pupils. This may be why she does not recall being told anything about prayers or the fact that the School did not have a prayer room when the Claimant joined the School.

... or all of this might have been avoided.

But the controversy has at least given me a chance to learn more about the school and Birbalsingh's autocratic methods. I was already aware of her negative attitude towards girls and STEM which was why she had to resign as social mobilty tsar but until I read the judgement I hadn't realised just what a boot camp it is.

There is no shortage of places. It's only running at 85% capacity. There are 132 places not filled - only 708 students when the capacity is 840.

I know that I would not let my child or grandchild within a country mile of Birbalsingh and her unyielding autocracy… which I would never do anyway because of her demeaning views on girls and STEM

You could decide for your own child but cannot make decisions on behalf of a grandchild unless you are in loco parentis.

There are different aspects of intransigence apparent here.

I don’t quite understand why I am being attacked. I am just expressing my views based on what I have read about Birbalsingh in the past, her negative views about girls and STEM and what I have read in the 85 page judgement. I’m a woman with a degree in Maths and Computer Science who has had a good career as a result of that. I dislike her patronising attitude that girls can’t do hard maths. Of course they can, if they have a good teacher. And, of course, parents can make their own choices; I am not saying that they can’t so long as the children have a say in it too and don’t end up mentally crushed by the machine-like regime or physically dead because they were made to stand out in the cold and wet day after day for no good reason. That isn’t education. That isn’t knowledge. That’s a headteacher making children suffer just because she has the power to do so.

Well, if all those parents agreed with your views the school would have no pupils and would have to close.

That’s up to them but I am astonished that any parent of daughters could support a headteacher who patronises girls in this way rather than provide them with the encouragement and teaching in subjects that lead to exciting careers.

It isn't just me who feels this way but many other professional women.

Dame Athene Donald, a professor of experimental physics and master of Churchill College, Cambridge, said the comments were “terrifying” and “quite damaging” and questioned to which research Birbalsingh was referring in suggesting that girls had an intrinsic lack of appetite for maths and physics.

It’s not a case of campaigning for more girls to do physics, it’s a case of making sure that girls aren’t discouraged by remarks like this,” Donald said. “We want girls to be free to pursue what they’re good at and, equally, boys should also be able to go into professions like nursing. We aren’t in a society like that.

Dr Jess Wade, a physicist at Imperial College London who campaigns for equality in science, said: “I honestly can’t believe we’re still having this conversation. It’s patronising, it’s infuriating, and it’s closing doors to exciting careers in physics and engineering for generations of young women. Whilst girls and boys currently choose A-level subjects differently, there is absolutely no evidence to show intrinsic differences in their abilities or preference.

www.theguardian.com/education/2022/apr/27/girls-shun-physics-a-level-as-they-dislike-hard-maths-says-social-mobility-head

I was incensed by Katharine Birbalsingh’s comments. In 1975, I chose physics, maths, chemistry and biology for A-levels. The groups were about a third female. Both our physics and chemistry teachers were female. My daughter, now a doctor, chose sciences, including physics, for all her A-level subjects.

I went to a comprehensive school and we were encouraged to do subjects we enjoyed. I am glad we did not have teachers telling us that, because we were female, we would not choose physics or maths because they were too hard. Presumably Birbalsingh also discourages girls from doing too much reading as this might cause their brains to melt and dribble out through their ears.

www.theguardian.com/education/2022/apr/28/no-girls-are-not-put-off-by-hard-maths-katharine-birbalsingh

TinSoldier

That’s up to them but I am astonished that any parent of daughters could support a headteacher who patronises girls in this way rather than provide them with the encouragement and teaching in subjects that lead to exciting careers.

That’s your viewpoint, but it’s a dangerous game deciding that other parents are wrong for not agreeing with you, however many names you attach, and very dismissive of anyone at any school, who does not opt for your idea of exciting careers.

Maybe I have an affinity with KB because I find Maths exceedingly hard, I really can't do much beyond money sums and the 24 hour clock! KB has a degree in French, good choice that (!!) with plenty of scope to learn grammar rules and to apply them, as well as to study great works of literature and develop analytical skills. But I digress.

All teachers find it hard to sustain complete discipline without resorting to tough rules and sanctions. That way the children tend to know where they stand, and what the boundaries are, that's not mentally crushing them is it?

Like Germanshepherdsmum, I would urge people who haven't already done so to read the judgement as it provides a lot of detail about how the school operates which I found chilling, for example, that children have to be "aggressively integrated". The word aggression shouldn't form any part of education.

I agree that STEM isn't for everyone but it could equally have been the other way around had, say, Birbalsingh been a scientist and decided that languages were too hard for girls. She's making arbitrary decisions about what girls are and aren't capable of doing.

I think you have to read the judgement to understand the kind of enforcement that goes on. It goes far beyond what is necessary. For example, if a child comes to school wearing a wrong piece of clothing, they are put in isolation until a parent brings the correct item to school. What if parents are at work? Most are. That would mean the child remains in isolation for the entire school day. For what? The wrong colour socks?

I forgot to mention before, but the court case revealed that Islamic prayer rituals had been carried out in the school in numbers and peaceably with permission before the events which lead to this court case. This is explained in paragraph 91 onwards.

93. In her second witness statement Ms Birbalsingh says “It is important to appreciate that, prior to the events of Spring 2023, none of the children at the School had ever sought to conduct prayer rituals during the school day.”

That was patently untrue because ...

This was then contradicted by Ms Hassan’s evidence, which I [the judge] accept. She left at the end of the Sixth Form in July 2021. When she was in the second year of the Sixth Form, Ms Hassan was permitted by her then Head of Year to perform the Asr prayer before “maths clinic”, which took place after school. The Head of Year “could not have been more helpful”. She made a classroom available for Ms Hassan who then used it to pray at lunchtime as well. Ms Hassan says that the practice which developed was that many other sixth formers, although she does not know how many, would also use this room to pray at lunchtime: “It was hardly a secret”. They would walk across from the Sixth Form common room, generally holding their pocket prayer mats, pray and then go back to the common room. Staff would see them doing so: “it was just an accepted part of sixth form life” and it was not controversial or a major issue.

94. Ms Birbalsingh’s statement in reply says that Ms Hassan “has described some events from a previous period in the School’s history”. Regrettably, Ms Birbalsingh does not acknowledge that her second witness statement, or other statements which she has made to the effect that hitherto no pupil had shown any wish to pray in school, were inaccurate in this respect. Nor does she explain how the inaccuracy came about. But nor does she contradict Ms Hassan’s account. Instead, she argues that “there is one respect in which Ms Hassan’s evidence is relevant” namely that it shows that if prayer rituals were permitted for some pupils, others would wish to follow suit.

And that is the crux of the matter. Provision had been made for student prayer in the recent past.

127. Ms Birbalsingh says that large numbers of parents were in touch with her about this issue [of prohibiting prayer], as well as with tutors and Heads of Year, between the week of 20 March 2023 and the decision of the Governing Body.

Muslim parents, in particular, explained the importance of prayer to them and their children. They generally, although not exclusively, wanted the School to provide a prayer room during the lunch period. Notwithstanding this, her view was and is that the only appropriate response was to prohibit prayer rituals.

So even when parents want a prayer room, she prohibits it.

You have to read the whole judgement to understand all of the context but my reading of this is that the unpleasant events which occurred could have been avoided if a prayer room away from the public had continued to be provided as it had been to Ms Hassan and her cohort over 2020 and 2021.

But Birbalsingh now has a rigid rule that not more than four students may gather together which would not allow the number of students who want to pray to do so at the same time. It is her own rigidity and mistrust of her students which has lead to this trouble and it could all have been avoided. Previous students had shown that prayer could be conducted peaceably. All she had to do was to monitor the situation to ensure that students who did not wish to pray were not coerced into doing so or chastised of they did not. That could have been made a condition of the facility - that permission would be withdrawn if it was abused.

My own view is that you shouldn’t encourage students male or female to achieve beyond their capability because at the highest level there are few job opportunities and only star pupils will achieve their ambition.

Let’s take maths, 50 yrs ago engineering calculations were all done freehand with only a slide rule to help for every project, now for 99% of projects each element is input into a computer which prints out the plans and produces structural calculations for that project.

There few jobs that actually use advanced mathematics, if a student had exceptional talent I suggest that their ability would be well in advance of the teaching ability at most schools

I think, TS, you have selected parts of the judgement which support your views about how the school is run. Only the matter of prayer rituals was at issue, together with two exclusions to which the claimant had been subjected. The court upheld the school’s decision not to permit prayer rituals. That was not only the decision of the headteacher, but of the governors.

I would mention, as regards one of your criticisms, that the decision makes it clear that part of the school yard is under cover, and pupils can gather there if it is raining.

I understand that you have fundamental problems with the headteacher and the way she runs the school, which you have made abundantly clear, but nevertheless it is a school which many local parents choose for their children. That is their prerogative. Indeed, the claimant said she did not wish to attend an Islamic or any other school. Personally, I wish more schools put in place such rigorous systems to ensure integration and counteract bullying.

I take a simple view of this. Ms B is the headteacher. At open days and meetings prospective parents and teachers are shown round the premises by pupils. They listen to the head teacher setting out the ethos, disciplinary structure and curriculum and make a choice as to whether their children will thrive there.

TinSoldier takes exception to the strict unifirm rules. Many schools take a similar approach and it seems effective in promoting good behaviour. The head at our high school told prospective pupils and parents. Unifirm policy is simple, we describe it they wear it. On homework / we set it, they do it
My less than confirming children stayed on through sixth form and still talk about happy days there

It was interesting that the claimant’s mother hadn’t bothered to attend an open day.

I believe a strict uniform policy is important provided it is readily available to buy without great expense. It not only instils conformity, it is a great leveller.

TinSoldier I think you have to read the judgement to understand the kind of enforcement that goes on. It goes far beyond what is necessary. For example, if a child comes to school wearing a wrong piece of clothing, they are put in isolation until a parent brings the correct item to school. What if parents are at work? Most are. That would mean the child remains in isolation for the entire school day. For what? The wrong colour socks?
Have you not read the perennial stories in the tabloids about pupils being sent home from state schools because their black shoes have a logo on them, or they're sporting an unacceptable hairstyle...too short, too fashionable, too long, or even the wrong coloured socks? Every year seemed to spawn more and more children excluded for what parent's regarded as trivial reasons, usually accompanied by a photo of an angry faced mother and her sad faced child. Very strict enforcement of uniform rules isn't limited to Michaela school.
Do you have any problem with the enforced vegetarian diet the school gradually came to? When some pupils originally joined they would have been permitted meat based meals. Or that Hindu children have to accept their plate may have been touched by an egg?

It was interesting that the claimant’s mother hadn’t bothered to attend an open day.
I thought that.
Although a bit of an artificial situation, parents do get to see the school in full swing and observe the interaction between teachers and pupils. It is a time for any questions to be asked and for any concerns to be aired. The mother could also have asked for a private visit. According the school's website, you, I, or anyone can go along.

TinSoldier I think you have to read the judgement to understand the kind of enforcement that goes on. It goes far beyond what is necessary. For example, if a child comes to school wearing a wrong piece of clothing, they are put in isolation until a parent brings the correct item to school. What if parents are at work? Most are. That would mean the child remains in isolation for the entire school day. For what? The wrong colour socks?

Surely the parents should check the clothing, correct uniform
means no isolation no parent bringing the correct item

Anniebach
When DD2 was a teenager I used to check her uniform, but that didn't stop her changing into her skinny black trousers before arriving at school! 🤣🤣🤣

Mollygo

TinSoldier

That’s up to them but I am astonished that any parent of daughters could support a headteacher who patronises girls in this way rather than provide them with the encouragement and teaching in subjects that lead to exciting careers.

That’s your viewpoint, but it’s a dangerous game deciding that other parents are wrong for not agreeing with you, however many names you attach, and very dismissive of anyone at any school, who does not opt for your idea of exciting careers.

I agree
It seems your views tinsoldier on here about the school and the Head are views you are entitled to, but don’t expect everyone else to chime with them.The parents of the girls at this school are happy with both the regime and ethos of it and the students do very well there.

Quote Joseann Fri 19-Apr-24 10:03:35
Anniebach
When DD2 was a teenager I used to check her uniform, but that didn't stop her changing into her skinny black trousers before arriving at school! 🤣🤣🤣

Did she enjoy a day in isolation 😂

Anything to get out of Maths lessons! 🤣

Joseann doesn’t everyone try to dodge maths 😂

I certainly did!

I admit I do not like Birbalsingh. I think she's a dictator with stereotypical, outdated ideas about girls and STEM - all that nonsense about girls not being able to do physics because the maths is too hard. It's why she resigned at social mobility tsar. It's the job of her teachers to teach the girls how to do the maths.

TinSoldier you posted earlier about a maths clinic held at school after normal school hours.

You seem to be contradicting yourself 🤔

Anniebach

Joseann doesn’t everyone try to dodge maths 😂

No! 🙂

Well there seems to be consensus on here, all except for TinSoldier.
Schools have the right to set the agenda and the ethos for their pupils, within the law.
Parents have the right to accept the school rules or choose a different school.

What annoys me the most is the waste of £150,000 in legal aid, assuming that the figure is correct and the claim of obtaining legal aid is correct. People often can’t get legal aid to divorce a controlling and abusive husband but this vexatious claim was apparently paid for by my and your taxes!

I wasted 2 yrs in maths lessons 50yrs ago learning to master logarithms, trigonometry and algebra, not once did I use any when I entered work and I doubt more than one or two in my class did either. It would have been far more use to teach business finance and accounts, practical financial management that everybody encounters when they leave education

Still today they don’t teach practical finance in school, which is why so many get into problems with loan repayments. They see the interest rate is 10% or whatever, “ I can afford that”, no darling, you have to pay the capital back as well!, and you can’t afford it.

It’s all part of discipline and self discipline children and now parents need to understand breaking the rules has consequences, when I go to work there is a uniform and no jewelry, if I don’t agree there is no job - end of story.

“Children are isolated until a parent brings the missing uniform”, Good for them, I bet that makes parents wake up in morning. Rules were strict at the school I went to, those that did not comply spent a lot of time in detention at break times and a few got suspended.