Too many British families are hungry!

Callistemon, I too have read reports of children arriving in reception classes ill prepared in terms of toileting and use of cutlery. I wonder how this fits in though with nursery education which I had though was fairly comprehensive and available? One thing for certain is that the closure of many Surestart centres must have contributed to this.

Callistemon21

Cossy

Skydancer

I have a friend from Hong Kong who has lived in this country for 50 years. I asked her if, during that time, she had noticed a decline in this country. She said yes and she felt a lot of people were not very intelligent. I'd agree really - maybe the education system lets too many people down. Money matters and everyday stuff like cooking should be taught from a young age as those are the things everyone has to deal with.

My first thought here is how very rude!
Secondly schools simply cannot teach everything! Unless we have a huge overall in our education system schools are there to “show people can pass exams” so they can move into further and higher education (not suggesting this is right, but this is how it is!)

Many banks do have links into Primary schools, I know NatWest do, and they encourage children to start saving, if they’re fortunate enough to receive pocket and birthday money.

Parents should really take responsibility for teaching their little ones money management and budgeting and how to shop, wash and iron clothes and cook! Schools have enough on their plates.

This friend from HK is obviously not intelligent enough to realise the difference between IQ and lack of education in certain areas.

Parents should really take responsibility for teaching their little ones money management and budgeting and how to shop, wash and iron clothes and cook! Schools have enough on their plates.
I agree, but many have not learnt from their parents.
There was a report on TV last night about children starting school (reception, not nursery) and not being toilet trained. Teachers have to spend up to 2½ hours per day changing nappies, toilet training their pupils. These are not children with disabilities,cities.
One teacher said research needed to be done into the reasons why.
I would suggest one is the availability of disposable nappies, which cost the earth in more ways than one. Secondly just sheer can't-be-bothereditis, someone else will do it.
If they had to wash terry nappies they'd soon potty train their toddlers.
The same with using cutlery, many 5 years olds do not have a clue.

It's all valuable time taken away from learning.

Cossy

Skydancer

I have a friend from Hong Kong who has lived in this country for 50 years. I asked her if, during that time, she had noticed a decline in this country. She said yes and she felt a lot of people were not very intelligent. I'd agree really - maybe the education system lets too many people down. Money matters and everyday stuff like cooking should be taught from a young age as those are the things everyone has to deal with.

My first thought here is how very rude!
Secondly schools simply cannot teach everything! Unless we have a huge overall in our education system schools are there to “show people can pass exams” so they can move into further and higher education (not suggesting this is right, but this is how it is!)

Many banks do have links into Primary schools, I know NatWest do, and they encourage children to start saving, if they’re fortunate enough to receive pocket and birthday money.

Parents should really take responsibility for teaching their little ones money management and budgeting and how to shop, wash and iron clothes and cook! Schools have enough on their plates.

This friend from HK is obviously not intelligent enough to realise the difference between IQ and lack of education in certain areas.

I do believe we have many people who have had poor education and who have been unwilling or have found it impossible to to take part in further education in later life

Government cuts have meant that some lessons just don't exist anymore or they're bundled in with others, on a rolling rota. Like cookery.

they have had to look outside, to take an interest in other countries, to learn other languages and see this as normal. I often feel many lack that ambition in this country and I believe in that respect we are insular

I would agree with this, to a point. Again, languages are NOT a priority in this country, either for its people or when it comes to teaching it. The attitude seems that half the universe speaks English so why should "we" bother? It is one thing which frustrates me when I go abroad. I can hold a reasonable conversation in German and Spanish and probably get by in French, but the laziness of some Brits who can't even be bothered to say "please" or "thank you" astounds me.

BUT

Ultimately, you can have all the degrees in the world, but if you can't afford to pay rent or heat your dinner then all that education matters not.

When I was working in a secondary school, up until 2012, there were lessons called Citizenship, which I believe were meant to cover some of the areas people have mentioned. Do they still exist?

But no amount of budgeting, nutritional information and cookery lessons is going to help the people who just don't have enough money to buy food, let alone cook it from scratch, etc.

The root of the problem is insufficient money. We have to decide, as a society, whether we want all citizens to be able to feed, clothe and heat themselves and their children, and so work to a more equitable distribution of resources, or whether the 'poor' are written off as feckless and undeserving non contributors to society. I rather think that the balance is in favour of the latter view...

I have now lived in the UK for over 50 years. One of the things that struck me when I first arrived was the inequality between people and the acceptance of it. I was young and naive and thought things would improve with time but I don't feel they have. I do believe we have many people who have had poor education and who have been unwilling or have found it impossible to to take part in further education in later life.
When I go to Scandinavia I do notice that people are generally well informed. Because they live in sparsely populated countries and speak minority languages they have had to look outside, to take an interest in other countries, to learn other languages and see this as normal. I often feel many lack that ambition in this country and I believe in that respect we are insular.
I hope you don't find this post offensive.

Skydancer

I have a friend from Hong Kong who has lived in this country for 50 years. I asked her if, during that time, she had noticed a decline in this country. She said yes and she felt a lot of people were not very intelligent. I'd agree really - maybe the education system lets too many people down. Money matters and everyday stuff like cooking should be taught from a young age as those are the things everyone has to deal with.

well.....as someone who has been educated in the past 50 years (less, actually), could you tell your friend from Hong Kong that I find her comment about intelligence offensive.

Skydancer

I have a friend from Hong Kong who has lived in this country for 50 years. I asked her if, during that time, she had noticed a decline in this country. She said yes and she felt a lot of people were not very intelligent. I'd agree really - maybe the education system lets too many people down. Money matters and everyday stuff like cooking should be taught from a young age as those are the things everyone has to deal with.

My first thought here is how very rude!
Secondly schools simply cannot teach everything! Unless we have a huge overall in our education system schools are there to “show people can pass exams” so they can move into further and higher education (not suggesting this is right, but this is how it is!)

Many banks do have links into Primary schools, I know NatWest do, and they encourage children to start saving, if they’re fortunate enough to receive pocket and birthday money.

Parents should really take responsibility for teaching their little ones money management and budgeting and how to shop, wash and iron clothes and cook! Schools have enough on their plates.

Doodledog writes: They (the single and/or childless) can go hungry too.

Exactly.

I wonder how many people who have contributed to this discussion, critical of other lifestyles, have actually looked at the survey and considered who was polled? I provided the link back on page seven but here it is again. Tab through the fourteen slides.

foodfoundation.org.uk/initiatives/food-insecurity-tracking#tabs/Round-14

It says:

From an online survey of 6,051 adults in the United Kingdom commissioned by The Food Foundation and conducted between 9th-16th January 2024 by YouGov.

YouGov survey respondents are drawn from a large pool of potential respondents. Active Sampling ensures that the right people are invited in the right proportions. In combination with statistical weighting, this ensures that results are representative of the country as a whole.

It is clear that the survey polled households with and without children. It states (inter alia) that:

20.0% of households with children reported experiencing food insecurity compared with 12.7% of households without children.

While the survey tells us that 8 million adults (14.8% of households) experienced food insecurity in January 2024 - it doesn’t it tell us precisely what kinds of households that 14.8% represents. Some inferences can be made from the comparative data, e.g. some households with pre-school age children, some single-adult households with children and so on, but I see nothing about the age of the adults in households that have no children.

I’ve thought about this in conjuction with the latest ONS population estimates.

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/families/bulletins/familiesandhouseholds/2022

In 2022:

There were an estimated 28.2 million households in the UK.

There were 19.4 million families.

Families with no children made up the largest proportion (43%) of families (8.3 million) in 2022. Families with one or more dependent children made up 42% of families (8.2 million), while families with non-dependent children only made up 15%. Families with no children will include those who have not had children as well as those whose children live elsewhere.

There were 4.4 million women living alone compared with 3.9 million men: the number of men living alone has grown by more than the number of women living alone over the last decade.

The people living alone are the difference between the total number of households and the number of “families”.

Around 30% of the population is under 25. 70% of the population is 25 or over. The population comprises roughly 50% male and 50% female.

8.3 million family households comprise only two adults so that's 16.3 million people. Families with non-dependent children make up another 15%, so that's around another 3 million. Another 8.3 million people live alone. That’s a total of 27.6 million adults. If 12.7% of those have experienced recent food insecurity that’s over 3.5 million adults without child responsibilities who are sometimes going hungry.

The argument (from some) that food insecurity is about feckless mothers who spend their money on phones and manicures and takeaways but who don’t have the skills to cook a pot of soup, starts to look a tad weak if the survey represents the population as a whole.

A reminder of the survey questions:

Have you/anyone else in your household:

1.had smaller meals than usual or skip meals because you couldn't afford or get access to food?

2.ever been hungry but not eaten because you couldn't afford or get access to food?

3.not eaten for a whole day because you couldn't afford or get access to food?

We asked them if they had experienced this in a) the last month and b) the last 6 months.

If you substitute (say) disabled, elderly couple, widow or widower for feckless, young mother, the numbers start to take on different meaning.

As I wrote previously, I think this is as much about access and isolation as it is about money. It isn’t only about familes with children.

Get access to is open to interpretation. I was thinking about this in the context of adult males.

Outside of haute cuisine and TV cheffery, I would wager that in the average two-adult heterosexual household, the majority of food planning, ordering, shopping and cooking is done by the woman. I wonder to what extent men, left to their own devices, bother to cook from scratch? Do they instead resort to pizza and chips from the freezer, phone out for a curry or go to the pub for a pie and a pint?

A question to the older, married women on this forum. If you have to go away for a week or two, do you make sure there is an adequate stock of food for your husband? If you predeceased your partner, how do you think he would cope? Do you think he might suffer food insecurity?

I know a number of men in their 60s, 70s and 80s who live alone, have no family (or no family near) and don’t have a car. They do not keep a large stock of food in their homes. They seem to survive on a diet of microwaved ready-meals and takeaways bought from the local shops. I asked a couple of them how they would manage if incapacitated for a long period. They hadn’t thought about it, just said they would cope “somehow”. I can easily imagine how they could find themselves in a situation where they would have to answer yes to one or all of the survey questions.

We have had discussions here where people have expressed reluctance when asked to help/shop for elderly neighbours. This isn’t a criticism about their attitude but those people asking for help may be the kinds of people experiencing food insecurity.

Blimey.

I have a friend from Hong Kong who has lived in this country for 50 years. I asked her if, during that time, she had noticed a decline in this country. She said yes and she felt a lot of people were not very intelligent. I'd agree really - maybe the education system lets too many people down. Money matters and everyday stuff like cooking should be taught from a young age as those are the things everyone has to deal with.

I am not sure if this has already been mentioned, but the Job Centre staff are no longer allowed to refer people to food banks supposedly because of Data Protection. Ridiculous, since they hand the referral slip to the claimant, who will need to supply that information anyway -eg number of children. Food banks generally need a referral so people now have to get in touch with another body eg advice centre, GP, housing office etc. Yet another barrier to food for your family.

Chocolatelovinggran

I know that this thread is about families, but I would like you to know that a percentage of our food parcels go to the homeless for whom lessons in soup making might not be so useful.

Yes, and whilst nobody with a heart would want to see children go hungry, the answer is probably not to give more to parents than to single people or those with no children. They (the single and/or childless) can go hungry too, and it seems madness to incentivise having more children by giving extra money to the parents - it is more important to ensure that all children are fed properly. That includes children from rich but neglectful families, and those with parents who are well-intentioned but for whatever reason not good at providing a balanced diet. I think that at least one hot meal a day should be provided free to all school children.

I also think that to ensure that everyone is decently fed there should be lessons on budgeting, cooking and nutrition, whether these are in school or on public information ads on TV; but that has to be backed up by making cheap ingredients available and affordable. There could be subsidies on basic foods, with state-organised delivery to drop-off points that people can access without transport, such as church halls, community centres, libraries - that sort of thing. They should be in every area, so there is no stigma attached, and there could be travelling vans in more rural areas. Maybe putting a tax on biscuits and pizza to pay for reducing the cost of carrots and lentils would help with obesity too, and reduce the amount of ultra processed foods people eat.

Such a scheme would need to be carefully marketed so that it didn't become another means of 'othering' those who used it. In the way that child benefit/family allowance used to be claimed by everyone, it could become something that was about being healthy and eating responsibly. The subsidised items could be British produced, which would also help struggling farmers, and could be seasonal and local, too, which would help the environment.

I appreciate that this wouldn't necessarily help the homeless, so other initiatives would need to be put in place for them. There really shouldn't be homeless people in a wealthy country anyway - it is shameful that so many people are homeless or vulnerably housed.

MaizieD

Dammit. I didn't intend all those italic bits to appear... 😂

Haha! I thought I'd got mine right first time, but with the inability to edit/delete and start again I just left it as it was!
Ah well. But thank you 😊

Dammit. I didn't intend all those italic bits to appear... 😂

It sounds like a rather pointless exercise, Seawoozle.

(to get italics the ^s have to be outside all the other characters in the bit you want to italicise. No spaces between the and the subsequent character)

MaizieD

^but any food is good if you’re hungry^

It might feel good to have hunger satisfied but in order to remain healthy the body needs to get the right balance between proteins, carbs and fats, and sufficient vitamins and minerals. Access to proper nutrition should be available to everyone. Food that 'fills' isn't necessarily going to satisfy nutritional needs.

Are people aware that the first stirrings of a 'welfare state' in the UK were partly prompted by the bad physical state of army recruits during the Boer wars (early 20th C). It may have been a utilitarian rather than a humanitarian decision on the part of the government to try to alleviate the condition of the poor, but at least it was recognised that the state needed to have a hand in it.

An ever increasing number of children living in poverty and not being fed an adequate diet is storing up trouble for the future, both in terms of a healthy workforce and demand for health services. But currently the state seems indifferent to this.

We are a very privileged generation, growing up at the height of the provision of state welfare. I wonder how many of the 'rags to riches' stories that posters like to tell about themselves would be possible under current conditions?

"^I wonder how many of the 'rags to riches' stories that posters like to tell about themselves would be possible under current conditions?^"

Have you ever seen Rich Kids Go Homeless MaizieD
Basically a group of young socialites/rich kids who think homeless people are lazy and don't try hard enough to get themselves out of homelessness. They turn up on the streets of London late at night, with all these big ideas about how they're going to get money aaaaaand.... everyone ignores them. It's a real eye opener.

but any food is good if you’re hungry

It might feel good to have hunger satisfied but in order to remain healthy the body needs to get the right balance between proteins, carbs and fats, and sufficient vitamins and minerals. Access to proper nutrition should be available to everyone. Food that 'fills' isn't necessarily going to satisfy nutritional needs.

Are people aware that the first stirrings of a 'welfare state' in the UK were partly prompted by the bad physical state of army recruits during the Boer wars (early 20th C). It may have been a utilitarian rather than a humanitarian decision on the part of the government to try to alleviate the condition of the poor, but at least it was recognised that the state needed to have a hand in it.

An ever increasing number of children living in poverty and not being fed an adequate diet is storing up trouble for the future, both in terms of a healthy workforce and demand for health services. But currently the state seems indifferent to this.

We are a very privileged generation, growing up at the height of the provision of state welfare. I wonder how many of the 'rags to riches' stories that posters like to tell about themselves would be possible under current conditions?

I know that this thread is about families, but I would like you to know that a percentage of our food parcels go to the homeless for whom lessons in soup making might not be so useful.

Whitewavemark2

UNICEF

The U.K. has the WORST child poverty in the world amongst developed wealthy nations.

Good to know that we are the best at something.

😢😢😢

UNICEF

The U.K. has the WORST child poverty in the world amongst developed wealthy nations.

Good to know that we are the best at something.

JaneJudge

It’s also very easy to whip up a meal when you have all the ingredients and money to buy it

I feel like I live on another planet

That said, I think there is an obsession with cooking from scratch and a freezer food, tinned food is ok too but tinned and dry food is generally all they give out a food banks so 🤷‍♀️

Food is food, fresh, tinned, dried, ready meals.
Freshly cooked from scratch may be the best but any food is good if you’re hungry or can’t get out much.I also think there’s an obsession now with health around food, do this, don’t do this and so on.Common sense dictates what to eat and so does money.

HousePlantQueen

Norah

Skydancer When I was a child mothers stayed at home. They had hours in which to prepare a nutritious meal which, in our case, was on the table at 6pm when Dad got home. These days, with 2 parents having to work, who has the energy or inclination to start a meal from scratch?

Mum stayed home with all of us, she cooked delicious nutritious food from scratch, hob did much of the work, she wasn't tied to in all day.

I do/did the same as mum - no more than 3-5 hours in the kitchen prepping, cooking, laying tables, washing up daily. Whilst making 3 meals, I get ready for the day, walk dogs, do laundry, hoover, do the books, etc.

My time has always been used by driving because we live a long distance from anywhere (school run, shops, etc).

With respect Norah you have told us in the past that you have never worked out of the home. Your choice of course and no criticism ftom me, but you can hardly compare your life to a couple juggling jobs and paid childcare, wondering how much their rent will increase this year

When I was a child my mother worked part-time.

I remember going with her in the school holidays when I was very young.

MissAdventure

Callistemon21

It's an aspect which many haven't considered MissAdventure.

If your GP could give you a recommendation to the Food Bank, I'm sure some of them will deliver to those who are housebound.

I really don't need to use the food bank, Cally.
I do have enough to manage on, thankfully.

I know you don't need it in one way, but I was thinking of accessibility to food, the difficulty in going out to buy it.

It must be very frustrating.

It’s also very easy to whip up a meal when you have all the ingredients and money to buy it

I feel like I live on another planet

That said, I think there is an obsession with cooking from scratch and a freezer food, tinned food is ok too but tinned and dry food is generally all they give out a food banks so 🤷‍♀️