Sentence for Nottingham killer?

To me the frightening thing is that, in a secure hospital, he will be forced to take his medication and will possibly appear to be reasonably well and not such a risk to the public. This could result in him being released at some stage in the future.
My daughter has psychotic episodes but at no time does she present a risk to anyone (other than possibly occasionally herself). She becomes unwell pretty quickly if she doesn't take her medication and a close watch is kept on her by the psychiatric services to ensure this doesn't happen. I am pretty disgusted that nobody seems to have been keeping an eye on this man when he was known to be so very violent.

It is being reported the man is entitled to a review of his mental health in 3 years

Let me reword it. It is also no good blaming a lack of funding and lacck of staff for what went wrong in this case, as with that poor little boy.

It is also the attitude and behaviour of staff that again and again get fobbed off by lying and devious parents/patients. This is part of the job, they should not be hoodwinked by these people, who are too ready to dismiss the concerns of any outsider, ie friends, neighbours others dealing with the person causing harm and an obsession with the rights of client/child whatsoever, forgetting completely about the rights of those attacked, killed, living with their client.

Quote Grantanow Fri 26-Jan-24 14:57:36
It's no good blaming the police or mental health workers in an unfunded and understaffed system

The families will accept this ?

It is most definitely not the case of apportioning blame. However if you had broken your leg, would you expect not to be treated? It’s time to recognise that mental health in the Uk needs a change of direction and fast.

It's no good blaming the police or mental health workers in an unfunded and understaffed system.

Some years ago I worked with young people....one young man (who was misusing substances) suffered a psychotic episode.

I won't go into detail but it was one of the worst things I've ever seen and he literally was a different person - his violence directed at himself and items in his accommodation.

His G.P refused to attend and the advice was to take him to A&E...we couldn't get physically close to him - the end result was calling the police who arrested him after using CS gas, he was admitted to a hospital and he walked out 4 hours later.....the system is shocking and I'm not surprised that so many people are let down.

Mental Health services in UK are struggling, no inter agency support, no places available to give acutely ill people a place of safety, staff on the front line given little or no support. Nobody wants to take responsibility, I see my daughter struggling to help her clients all the time, she is a senior mental health practitioner. Until services are improved tragic events like this will continue to happen.

Of course I am extremely sorry for the families, especially having grand children of the same age as the students, and not forgetting the caretaker. It is still to be decided whether the sentence will be sent to the court of appeal for review., they have just said on the news.

I reiterate what others have said, given he was sectioned 4 times, the powers that be who let him out have a lot to answer for. It's heartbreaking to see the smiling faces of the those two young people with their whole future in front of them, and to read the testaments of their family members describing their heartbreak, not forgetting the older man who was also murdered too.

Another sad fact, the man's parents were described as good people, his mother a nurse and his father a carer. Their life is also going to be mired in heartbreak, I'm sorry for them too.

They are grieving the hideous murder of their family members, of course their interpretation will be different from the judge.

I certainly agree that the police let the public down in not securing his detention for the previous crime and that the mental health services are deficient in failing to keep the public safe by not detaining patients such as this one.
But those are separate issues.
I put “ justice” in inverted commas, because it seems that those who call for justice have their interpretation which they consider more correct than the sentencing judge. I think the judge is right. Apologies for omitting ‘ probably’ for the rest of his life. I hope he will never be released.

I think one reason for the families anger is that an arrest warrant had been issued for Calocane after he failed to attend court in September 2022 over an alleged assault on a police officer....he wasn't arrested.
For them no doubt it's a "what if"?

The laws are there. People can be sectioned but not permanently - the initial sectioning can be extended for six months and then annually on doctors’ authority. In theory the sectioning could be renewed annually for the rest of their lives.

GSM I have often wondered why the laws surrounding detention and treatment of mentally ill people have not been updated to protect both the public and the patient. Sometimes it can take a very long stay in hospital to get treatment working and the exceptional expertise of psychiatrists. It can be done.

Protection of the public is the top priority, whatever that course takes!

We do, MOnica. He was sectioned four times and won’t take his medication. Such people need to be kept in a secure mental hospital where their medication can if necessary be given to them forcibly rather than waiting for them to kill someone. Many mental conditions can be successfully treated, but not all, and if someone can be relatively safe within the community is they take their medication, if they refuse to do so what alternative is there?

He carried out an attack on a police officer, was tasered by officers

I understand how the families feel, but this man was severely mentally ill and manslaughter on the grounds of diminished mental responsibility was the right charge.

The responsibility lies with the mental health authorities who thought he was safe to be left out on his own, the way the mental services are underfunded often forcing these decisions on mental health authorities.

While no one would want to return to the policy before the 1860s of just locking people away in hospitals for life when they were no risk to others. The current attitude of having mental patients all living in the community regardless of their risk to others has gone too far

This is not the first time this has happened and it will not be the last. We need to have the ability to detain people with mental conditions that threaten others, who will not co-operate with treatment - like taking medications, which results in them being a danger to other people.

I notice that he is guilty of three counts of attempted murder and three of manslaughter and am mystified by this. If he had succeeded in killing the three pedestrians presumably that would be manslaughter too. I’m not surprised the bereaved families feel they were railroaded.

The media has reported that a psychiatrist said that the form of schizophrenia he has is "untreatable"

Did you realise that with proper medication, schizophrenia is a treatable disorder? My despair is for the people who lost their lives but also for anyone with a severe psychiatric disorder. It does seem that psychiatric illnesses are very difficult to treat in the Uk. I don’t know what additional safeguards can be put in place to protect the public and also the ill person?

I believe that medication can forcibly be given in a secure hopital but not in prison. He is a danger to everyone in contact with him

Probably remain. The siblings of the victims will never know if he is released

I sincerely hope he is never released. I cannot imagine that he will ever be a safe person on Britain’s streets. If he’s thought to be well enough to be released (unlikely) then he should be sent to prison and he should live the rest of his life there.
I’m not surprised that the families are upset, I can only imagine how I would feel if it was my child.