The cost of the Rwanda Policy

The members of the public that bothered to vote in the referendum and subsequently gave the Conservative Party a huge majority did so because they have grave and valid concerns about immigration running out of control.
We need to have serious conversations about over population and lack of infrastructure.
These conversations can not happen while people make statements such as ‘I get that they feel they have to appeal to racists’
Being concerned about immigration does not amount to racism.
That is the sort of statement that results in the Rwanda policy gaining support from worried people.
I am very much against the Rwanda policy personally but can see how it appeals to those who are desperate for a conversation but are shut down constantly with the accusations of racism.

After looking at their proposals for visas I've realised that the changes would have meant that my SiL could never have come here to marry DD. It was difficult enough as it was with pages and pages of forms and DD having to prove that, as a post grad student, she had the money to support him. Then several years of yearly visits to Croydon to prove that theirs was a genuine marriage and not just a way for him to get into the country.

If people who voted Leave in the referendum did so because they were concerned about immigration, they were ninnies. Sure, it meant the end of freedom of movement (both ways) within the EU, but the UK has always been able to control the number of legal immigrants from outside the EU.

The top seven countries of origin for immigrants to the UK in the year ending 2021 were India, Poland, Pakistan, the Republic of Ireland, Germany, Romania and Nigeria.

The only country over which the UK has no control is the Republic of Ireland.

9.3% of immigrants are from India, which has never been in the EU, and the UK could always have put a block on immigration from India, if it had wanted.

LauraNorderr It could be argued that those who voted Remain were the racists! ;-) My mother, who was without a shadow of a doubt a racist - and did little to hide it - voted to remain in the EU. When I asked her why, she said that it was because being in the EU meant that immigrants were white. Her argument was that the UK would still need immigrants, but being outside the EU would mean that immigrants were black.

I wasn’t arguing the case for or against membership of the EU. The point I was making was that the language used by DaisyAnn regarding ‘appealing to racists’ is what closes down the conversation regarding immigration and results in people supporting extreme policies out of fear of having no control.

Calling people with genuine concerns ninnies doesn’t help either.
Trying to understand the concerns and addressing them without emotive language and accusations of racism or stupidity might help to allow conversation and help to dispel fears and/or find solutions.

I have been following Chris Grey's Brexit blog for a number of years now and he talks about immigration in today's offering.

I think the pertinent point that he makes is that the Leave campaigns emphasised controlling immigration, painting Freedom of Movement as a barrier to that control, but they didn't promise to cut down on immigration.

In fact, Jonathon Portes (Professor of Economy) points out that controlling immigration has been the one success of Brexit, in that all immigration is now visa controlled with no FoM.

What Grey points out is that many Leave voters did equate 'controlling immigration' with cutting numbers of immigrants. Encouraged, no doubt by the 'dark ads' which implied that post Brexit Health Services would be much more easy to access because the GPs waiting rooms and A& E wouldn't be clogged up with foreigners. (Please note implied, it wasn't said in so many words). The dark ads also implied that there were hordes of foreigners waiting to overwhelm the UK.. Turkey about to join the EU, middle eastern countries portrayed as being on the borders of the EU with arrows pointing suggestively from them into the EU. And of course, Farage's notorious ;Breaking Point poster...

Bearing this in mind I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that racism was the motive for a number of Leave voters. Though painting all leave voters as racist is palpably unfair.

chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/2023/12/immigration-and-asylum-rows-are-another.html

I don’t doubt your final paragraph Maizie and I do believe there are racists with deep rooted hatred of anyone different to themselves BUT I also believe that they are a tiny minority. I think that there are also ‘racists’ created by fear and resentment when the issues that concern them are not addressed. People who have seen their communities change from English speaking streets and businesses to areas where they don’t understand the languages around them and feel foreign in their own country. Calling them racists and ninnies makes them feel helpless and ignored, these are the people who then feel driven to extreme views.

I'm not so sure that they are a 'tiny minority', LauraNorder.

I don’t think many of the ignorant bigots in our country actually vote so I do believe those others that I described are the ones driving extremism. We need to listen before it goes too far.
Not just in the U.K. either.

To answer the op. Yes. A disgraceful waste of money, time, effort.

So driven off topic by the first reply

Has anyone any thoughts about the costs of the Rwanda Plan, and how that money might be used/have been used or shall we just discuss LauraNorder's view on how I should structure my OP?

LauraNorderr

Calling people with genuine concerns ninnies doesn’t help either.
Trying to understand the concerns and addressing them without emotive language and accusations of racism or stupidity might help to allow conversation and help to dispel fears and/or find solutions.

Ahem! I was actually being polite! There were people who voted Leave because they didn't like foreigners. I accept there were other reasons people voted Leave. I was addressing my comment at those who voted Leave because they thought it would keep foreigners out.

Do you want me to write what I really think of most of the reasons I've seen given for leaving the EU?

DaisyAnneReturns

So driven off topic by the first reply

Has anyone any thoughts about the costs of the Rwanda Plan, and how that money might be used/have been used or shall we just discuss LauraNorder's view on how I should structure my OP?

Sorry DAR. Guilty as charged.

In my opinion the cost of the Rwanda scheme is just unbelievable but, quite frankly, I'm beginning to believe anything with this circus of clowns in charge.

MaizieD

I'm not so sure that they are a 'tiny minority', LauraNorder.

Pleas excuse me just one more post DAR.

I agree Maizie. Most political modelling shows that about 25% of the UK population has entrenched racist values.

PS. People who thought that leaving the EU would bring down immigration are ninnies.

DaisyAnneReturns

So driven off topic by the first reply

Has anyone any thoughts about the costs of the Rwanda Plan, and how that money might be used/have been used or shall we just discuss LauraNorder's view on how I should structure my OP?

TBH, DAR, it's so obvious what should have been done with that £wop million (and another £50million in the pipeline) that it scarcely seems worth discussing again.

£wop million😱?

£290million..

growstuff

PS. People who thought that leaving the EU would bring down immigration are ninnies.

Apparently, if you go back over what was said, bringing immigration down wasn't actual said. It was just "control" of immigration.

People (all people) tend to forget the actual and plump fir what they want.

I just wonder where we would be if we had spent this on a proper set up.

Your not wrong Maizie. But it does need saying if not discussing.

I'm going to start another thread you might find more interesting

DaisyAnneReturns

growstuff

PS. People who thought that leaving the EU would bring down immigration are ninnies.

Apparently, if you go back over what was said, bringing immigration down wasn't actual said. It was just "control" of immigration.

People (all people) tend to forget the actual and plump fir what they want.

I just wonder where we would be if we had spent this on a proper set up.

Ah! So that explains everything!

What you're saying suggests my Mum was right. She didn't really care less about the number of immigrants in the country because she didn't really understand anything political.

She was a racist and I thought she would vote Leave in the referendum to prevent EU citizens moving to the UK, but it turned out that she didn't dislike white foreigners, only black foreigners. In her mind, she worked out that if white EU immigrants were barred from coming to the UK, there would be more black ones. Therefore, in her mind, it was better to vote Remain.

DaisyAnneReturns

Your not wrong Maizie. But it does need saying if not discussing.

I'm going to start another thread you might find more interesting

I find all your threads interesting.

Thank you!

Let's be clear the appeal of the Conservative party has always been made by targeting a minority and making them the evil body responsible for the country's ills. The miners were Thatcher's, benefit claimers were Cameron's. But now they need the votes of people on benefits. So we have illegal immigrants. Why hasn't the money been spent coping with Asylum seekers? Well for the simple reason that most of those now languishing in a state of limbo, waiting for judgements would have been classed as needing asylum, and that wouldn't suit the Tories at all. They need to be left in hotels where they can be labelled illegal immigrants and blamed for everything.