UNIVERSAL BASIC INCOME 1600.00 PER MONTH

It was mentioned somewhere else. Might have been on TRIP’s or I might have read it in The Times.I think it was a response to the fact that AI will eventually make humans unnecessary in a way not seen since the Industrial Revolution. We need to think ahead to the implications of that.

Yes, it's a trial thing.

I cannot see how this would work.

Theoretically, a billionaire would get the same as the poorest.

Unrealistic, and how would it be paid for? 🙄

It will only involve thirty people for two years so the cost will be about a million pounds excluding the cost of monitoring the project.

20% of the places will go to people with disabilities.

Two places in England have been selected for the micro pilot scheme: central Jarrow, in north-east England, and East Finchley, in north London.

In Wales, the devolved government is running a scheme paying a £1,600 a month for two years to young people leaving care. It says it will report on the outcome after the trial finishes.

More information here:

www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jun/04/universal-basic-income-of-1600-pounds-a-month-to-be-trialled-in-england

I believe that the personal tax allowance is not applied. There have been many threads about this, it is not set up to punish pensioners or reward "benefit scroungers". It is an important social and economic experiment.

It’s definitely going to happen due to AI.
AI is going to be a greater revolution than the industrial one.
We don’t know what is about to hit us.

i have heard at least 2 non-uk highly capitalist technical experts in AI say that this will have to come in, in some form.
i don't understand anything about AI and almost nothing about economics, but i reckon they know what they are talking about.

Did they not try this in Finland already and stopped it? Couldn't have worked.

That’s nearly £20k a year, so a single person would be able to rent a flat and have over £12k pocket money with no incentive to do anything.
Where do these ideas come from.

Yes, they did do it in Finland, with mixed results. www.dw.com/en/does-finland-show-the-way-to-universal-basic-income/a-53595886

However the basic income they gave was a third of what is being suggested for the UK.

Katie59 I think you are over optimistic over spending patterns. In many areas of the country, including much of the south east and big cities the basic rent for a flat is £1,000 a month. That leaves £700 a month for utility bills, council tax, food etc, not quite so generous, although I do take your point and think that £1,600 is too high.

Anyway read the link, it makes interesting reading. Many people in Finland found it an incentive to set up small businesses or concentrate on building a career through low-paid internships, or free lance work.

But who paid the taxes to fund it all?

Around here, London/North Kent border, 2 and 3 bed reasonable private rentals are going from £2000pcm to over £3000pcm.

So, this amount wouldn't cover the rent, unless it was topped up somehow.

It's unworkable, as you would still need means tested benefits.🙄

Taxes dont fund spending .

paddyann54 what does?

if the £1600 a month and you have to pay your own rent and utilities then the money will be coming from not giving housing benefit to claimants. people will not be able to exist on that any many will not use it to pay their own rent and utilities and will become homeless. or have i got it wrong

M0nica

paddyann54 what does?

Money created by the Bank of England to make payments on the instruction of Parliament.

It's all here, MOnica. Impeccably and exhaustively researched:

www.ucl.ac.uk/bartlett/public-purpose/sites/bartlett_public_purpose/files/the_self-financing_state_an_institutional_analysis_of_government_expenditure_revenue_collection_and_debt_issuance_operations_in_the_united_kingdom.pdf

Taxation has several functions, but the initial funding of spending isn't one of them.

The real problem is housing costs are too high in relation to income, there are always going to be low paid service workers who have to live somewhere, or are we going to rely more on short term overseas workers and house them in portacabins, as they do with veg pickers.

MaizieD

M0nica

paddyann54 what does?

Money created by the Bank of England to make payments on the instruction of Parliament.

It's all here, MOnica. Impeccably and exhaustively researched:

www.ucl.ac.uk/bartlett/public-purpose/sites/bartlett_public_purpose/files/the_self-financing_state_an_institutional_analysis_of_government_expenditure_revenue_collection_and_debt_issuance_operations_in_the_united_kingdom.pdf

Taxation has several functions, but the initial funding of spending isn't one of them.

That’s the theory but for the UK it doesn’t work because we don’t invest in growth.

That’s the theory but for the UK it doesn’t work because we don’t invest in growth.

You've lost me already, Katie59. What is the theory you're referring to?

Spending preceding taxation, for at least 50yrs we have not spent enough on development and too much on social gains. Much of the social spending has not resulted in taxation income

Much of the social spending has not resulted in taxation income

Can you explain what you mean by 'social spending', so we don't talk at cross purposes.

Can you explain how 'social spending' hasn't resulted in taxation income? Where do you think the money went? Did it disappear into thin air? (or into tax havens)

The real problem is housing costs are too high in relation to income,

Exactly! If the housing market hadn’t become virtually controlled by private landlords out to make a profit, rents might not have spiralled out of control and out of reach for many people. There needs to be a total rethink of the private rental sector in this country.

Katie59 I don't know where you live but I'm thinking of moving there! Able to rent a flat for a year for £8000!!!!!

South Midlands, further north cheaper, not every single person needs frills if they are on limited income.

MaizieD

^Much of the social spending has not resulted in taxation income^

Can you explain what you mean by 'social spending', so we don't talk at cross purposes.

Can you explain how 'social spending' hasn't resulted in taxation income? Where do you think the money went? Did it disappear into thin air? (or into tax havens)

Social spending.
Education, much expenditure is wasted educating those who do not benefit from it, half the graduates are not doing graduate work
Health, apart from waste and inefficiencies, free health services are provided to those that can well afford to pay for it.
Benefits, they should ALL be means tested.
Environment, we are leading the world on climate change, spending massively, our competitors spend less, they benefit and we import their goods. In particular renewable energy almost all solar and wind technologies are imported, all we have done is export our pollution.