Cancel Culture or Free Speech

I will continue to sign any petition I see that is petitioning for the exclusion of TIM in female only sports categories.

This is one area that I am really concerned about. It is an uphill struggle to keep girls involved and or interested in sport and they need to know that they will be competing and playing with their contemporaries not boys or men.

Before the pile on yes I know that some sports are mixed sex like equestrian and darts (yes darts is under the sports category)

How many people actually sign those petitions?

GrannyGravy13, Keep signing.

Some sports do not enable males to benefit from the edge that being male gives them, but cheating TW and fans would soon start to argue that it’s unfair to exclude males from only some female sports, so they should stop excluding them from any.

When we’ve just achieved segregation by sex in some of the sports where it does matter, it would be a shame to give cheats a chance to muddy the waters.

I sign them.

"Feminism particularly feminism which prioritises the needs of women isn't actually that popular" well it certainly doesn't appear to be that popular with some on GN Galaxy.

Well I don't tend to follow the herd VS so how much a particular issue matters to how many doesn't interest or matter to me.

VioletSky

How many people actually sign those petitions?

Are we talking about in the UK or America?
I know you’re interested in America.
That sort of petition is only signed by people who don’t want the element of cheating that TW introduced to spread.
Would you sign it?

VioletSky

How many people actually sign those petitions?

No idea, but to copy a TV jingle every little helps

As you call yourself a feminist I would have thought that you would be all for fairness and safety in girls and women’s sports and therefore willing to sign.

Hmm

I'll look into this more but I'm really interested to know

Sure lots of women are interested in protecting sports and safe spaces like me but they are still trans inclusive and not worried about toilets or knowing the identity of people they meet etc

It seems that realistically, it's very possible that those who identify as gender critical or don't identify as gender critical but agree with the views of those who are gender critical... Make up a smaller number than actual trans people in the uk

VioletSky

Hmm

I'll look into this more but I'm really interested to know

Sure lots of women are interested in protecting sports and safe spaces like me but they are still trans inclusive and not worried about toilets or knowing the identity of people they meet etc

It seems that realistically, it's very possible that those who identify as gender critical or don't identify as gender critical but agree with the views of those who are gender critical... Make up a smaller number than actual trans people in the uk

TIM playing contact sports in what should be a girls/woman’s team like rugby, football, hockey is a real physical danger to the women on the team.

I am not prepared to wait for a life changing accident or even death to happen before making up my mind that it is wrong.

Cycling has recognised the advantages of TIM and have banned them from women’s races, I look forward to other sporting bodies following their lead.

I'm all for protecting sports and safe spaces as I said and already keep up with the news on that

But thank you

VioletSky

Hmm

I'll look into this more but I'm really interested to know

Sure lots of women are interested in protecting sports and safe spaces like me but they are still trans inclusive and not worried about toilets or knowing the identity of people they meet etc

It seems that realistically, it's very possible that those who identify as gender critical or don't identify as gender critical but agree with the views of those who are gender critical... Make up a smaller number than actual trans people in the uk

Well there’s a really nonsensical post.

Sure lots of women are interested in protecting sports and safe spaces like me but they are still trans inclusive and not worried about toilets or knowing the identity of people they meet etc

You’ve just decided that your version of trans inclusive is the only real one and added untruths about people you don’t know. 👏👏

You purport to support female safe spaces, but support the dishonesty of men who go in them by saying they should be allowed in them. 👏👏
(Waits for the immediate outcry from the poster who is evidently told what sex people are.)

those who identify as gender critical or don't identify as gender critical but agree with the views of those who are gender critical
Wriggling around on the end of the
gender critical appellation trying to find a way to label people to suit your truth.

* It seems that realistically* You’re projecting your own hopeful statistics to suit what you want.

Have a nice day.

VioletSky

Hmm

I'll look into this more but I'm really interested to know

Sure lots of women are interested in protecting sports and safe spaces like me but they are still trans inclusive and not worried about toilets or knowing the identity of people they meet etc

It seems that realistically, it's very possible that those who identify as gender critical or don't identify as gender critical but agree with the views of those who are gender critical... Make up a smaller number than actual trans people in the uk

How do you reach the thought expressed in your final paragraph VS? You seem to believe that the majority are trans inclusive like you.

icanhandthemback

^I regard the biological argument as a complete irrelevancy since no one can or has explained to me how it applies to my everyday life. But if you can explain to me how it will be done I'm quite willing to look at the question again.^

I read your posts with respect, Glorianny, as I really do want to learn but this statement is a bit strange. Just about every time you visit a Dr, your biological sex will be taken into account or every month you ovulate when you were younger or reaching menopause, etc, etc, assuming you are a natal female.. Your biology does have a relevancy whether you like it or not (and many times I haven't liked it) and there is no way really to get around it.

If I visit a doctor it is a private not a public transaction and not something I do every day. If I ovulate or not is no one's business. My mother never had a period from the age of 25 until her death at 94. A good friend never ovulated or had children after she had cervical cancer at the age of 32. Are you saying their biology mattered and they were not women? You have actually vividly illustrated why it isn't possible to use biology or science in everyday life, because you do not, cannot and should not know the intimacies of anyone else's body unless they choose to tell you about them, and making assumptions or posting generalities about women is demeaning and dangerous for all women.

I'm concerned about intact males in women's toilets, changing rooms, hospital wards, safe houses and prisons and I am also trans inclusive as is everyone I see posting on these threads.

I'm not worried about the identity of people I meet.

I think it's extremely unrealistic that those who feel as I do, be they feminists, GC feminists and non feminists both female and male "make up a smaller number than actual trans people in the UK".

6th January 2023 48,000 (0.10%) identified as trans women. 30,000 (0.6%) identified as non binary and 18,000 (0.4%) declared a different gender identity. 96,000 in total.

I was reading a thread on Mumsnet this morning about whether people are "out" with their gender critical views

Many did say that they are not, some said because their feeds on social media were very left or "woke"

Some said they were out completely and didn't care what others thought

Others said only to close friends and family or people they had found who shared their views

It was interesting but also a bit sad that women have become so polarised instead of finding a comfortable middle ground where all views are welcome as a productive means to comfortable coexistence

GrannyGravy13

VioletSky

Hmm

I'll look into this more but I'm really interested to know

Sure lots of women are interested in protecting sports and safe spaces like me but they are still trans inclusive and not worried about toilets or knowing the identity of people they meet etc

It seems that realistically, it's very possible that those who identify as gender critical or don't identify as gender critical but agree with the views of those who are gender critical... Make up a smaller number than actual trans people in the uk

TIM playing contact sports in what should be a girls/woman’s team like rugby, football, hockey is a real physical danger to the women on the team.

I am not prepared to wait for a life changing accident or even death to happen before making up my mind that it is wrong.

Cycling has recognised the advantages of TIM and have banned them from women’s races, I look forward to other sporting bodies following their lead.

All sports should be safe and there is no evidence that playing in a mixed team is any more dangerous than a single sex team. Some sports like Rugby have been modified because they were especially dangerous for children and the version played in schools now is not the game traditionally played. One of the most dangerous sports is football, especially when players are encouraged to head the ball. Safety in sport is an entirely separate issue and little to do with trans people.

Glorianny

GrannyGravy13

VioletSky

Hmm

I'll look into this more but I'm really interested to know

Sure lots of women are interested in protecting sports and safe spaces like me but they are still trans inclusive and not worried about toilets or knowing the identity of people they meet etc

It seems that realistically, it's very possible that those who identify as gender critical or don't identify as gender critical but agree with the views of those who are gender critical... Make up a smaller number than actual trans people in the uk

TIM playing contact sports in what should be a girls/woman’s team like rugby, football, hockey is a real physical danger to the women on the team.

I am not prepared to wait for a life changing accident or even death to happen before making up my mind that it is wrong.

Cycling has recognised the advantages of TIM and have banned them from women’s races, I look forward to other sporting bodies following their lead.

All sports should be safe and there is no evidence that playing in a mixed team is any more dangerous than a single sex team. Some sports like Rugby have been modified because they were especially dangerous for children and the version played in schools now is not the game traditionally played. One of the most dangerous sports is football, especially when players are encouraged to head the ball. Safety in sport is an entirely separate issue and little to do with trans people.

Contact sport were TIM wish to play on a woman’s team has absolutely everything to do with trans people likewise a woman who identifies as male would be in an extremely vulnerable position playing in a male team of any contact sport.

I’d you wish to ignore the dangers that is down to you, but I would be mortified if a trans sportsman/woman was injured or caused injury due to them participating in a team not of their biological sex.

There can be no middle ground as long as those who express their concerns and are trans inclusive are at risk of being called transphobic.

Smileless2012

There can be no middle ground as long as those who express their concerns and are trans inclusive are at risk of being called transphobic.

Exactly this.
👏👏👏

GrannyGravy13

Glorianny

GrannyGravy13

VioletSky

Hmm

I'll look into this more but I'm really interested to know

Sure lots of women are interested in protecting sports and safe spaces like me but they are still trans inclusive and not worried about toilets or knowing the identity of people they meet etc

It seems that realistically, it's very possible that those who identify as gender critical or don't identify as gender critical but agree with the views of those who are gender critical... Make up a smaller number than actual trans people in the uk

TIM playing contact sports in what should be a girls/woman’s team like rugby, football, hockey is a real physical danger to the women on the team.

I am not prepared to wait for a life changing accident or even death to happen before making up my mind that it is wrong.

Cycling has recognised the advantages of TIM and have banned them from women’s races, I look forward to other sporting bodies following their lead.

All sports should be safe and there is no evidence that playing in a mixed team is any more dangerous than a single sex team. Some sports like Rugby have been modified because they were especially dangerous for children and the version played in schools now is not the game traditionally played. One of the most dangerous sports is football, especially when players are encouraged to head the ball. Safety in sport is an entirely separate issue and little to do with trans people.

Contact sport were TIM wish to play on a woman’s team has absolutely everything to do with trans people likewise a woman who identifies as male would be in an extremely vulnerable position playing in a male team of any contact sport.

I’d you wish to ignore the dangers that is down to you, but I would be mortified if a trans sportsman/woman was injured or caused injury due to them participating in a team not of their biological sex.

That wasn't what I actually said.
You claim that transwomen will be a danger in sports to natal women. The only way to judge that is to look at sports which are already mixed and see what the dangers are there, and as I said they are no more dangerous. So you may think there may be a danger that doesn't mean it exists.
I do think it would be good if there were opportunities in sport for women to achieve, and for transwomen to take part and for mixed and men's teams.
The reason I posted about the adaptation for children is that rugby is one of the most dangerous sports which can be adapted for all to play.
If you want to look at figures look at the number of male rugby players injured, nothing to do with their sex, it's simply a high risk game.

If world rugby has banned trans women from the elite sport surely grass roots teams should follow?

No one has ever called me transphobic and I've never felt at risk for my views.

I've always said that sports need to be fair, that safe spaces need protection. I have always said the equality act makes provision for this and organisations are well within their legal right to ensure it is the case. I have always said so freely without issue.

I'd see it be far more of a problem in other incidences, some examples:

When people are of the opinion that the actions of a rapist or someone issuing death threats who are individuals, somehow reflects on the way people should view trans people in general

Or when people make comments about how someone doesn't look the way they think a man or woman should present

Or when they claim that trans people are mentally ill or living a fictional life in some way

Or when butch lesbians or masculine appearing women are abused or attacked in toilets or in the street by those who believe them to be trans

Or when trans people themselves are abused or attacked for being trans

Or when trans people themselves are disowned by their families and friends

I think that is interesting as mixed sex sports become more accepted. The 2026 Summer Youth Olympics will include for the first time a mixed sex baseball section.
Sport should be for all and more ways of being inclusive for all sections of society should be being explored.
It isn't just a trans issue.

The FA says that there can be mixed sex teams up to the age of 16, after that it’s boys or girls teams.

GrannyGravy13

The FA says that there can be mixed sex teams up to the age of 16, after that it’s boys or girls teams.

Yeh well the FA shut down women's football after WW1, possibly because it was popular and a challenge to men's football. I wouldn't look to them for equality or progression.

Glorianny

GrannyGravy13

The FA says that there can be mixed sex teams up to the age of 16, after that it’s boys or girls teams.

Yeh well the FA shut down women's football after WW1, possibly because it was popular and a challenge to men's football. I wouldn't look to them for equality or progression.

You obviously haven’t been following the success of the Lionesses…