Can a woman have a penis?

Galaxy

It was a sexual offence Glorianny. Being a man is quite important as well you know the stats.

You didn't answer my question Galaxy and we all know how important that is in these threads.
If a company with a women CEO had done it would it have been OK?
And (as you insist on pursuing it)
Would it have been legal?

Galaxy

The equality act is not discrimination my beliefs reflect that act. If you want to show me anything discriminatory that I have said please do so.

Of course the equality act isn't discriminatory. It balances the rights of people and ensures singe sex spaces are protected. But it does so without making arbitrary decisions based on a persons's appearance- that's discrimination.
The Equality Commision says
The Equality Act allows a lawfully established separate or single-sex service provider to prevent, limit or modify people’s access on the basis of gender reassignment in some circumstances. However, limiting or modifying access to, or excluding a trans person from, the separate or single-sex service of the gender in which they present will be unlawful if you cannot show such action is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim. This applies whether or not the person has a Gender Recognition Certificate.
That's not discrimination. Chucking someone out of a toilet because of the way they look is.

It's blindingly obvious what you mean, GG (and I agree), but faux misunderstanding is a theme on this thread.

I will repeat my questions from earlier (again), not that I expect an answer to either:

(i) Can you have a male woman and a female man?

(ii) If so, when did this radical shift in the language take place, and who was responsible for its imposition?

There is literally an entire forum for trans people, asking if they "pass" yet.

They have spent different amounts of time on hormones and want to know if they are at the stage they can move safely and freely in public yet

And when they get the yes, they can and they do

Glorianny

GrannyGravy13

Galaxy

And talking about dresses like a woman or presents like a woman reinforces those deeply old fashioned ideas of how women should be. I dont engage in racist stereotypes because there is racism in society (and always will be) it's the same for gender.

Sorry Galaxy whenever there is an interview/article/picture of a trans woman (man) they are usually presenting as a girly woman, in overly feminine dresses, lots of makeup and what can only be described as girly gesturing.

Some of the more vociferous trans women look like caricatures of women, so overtly sexual complete with their male genitalia outlined by their tight clothing, on show for all…

The above examples are in my opinion damaging to women and young girls on so many levels.

OMG I thought we had passed the stage where we criticised people for the way they dressed. Apparently not. We have just moved on. Can I remind you that it isn't 5 minutes since women were told their dress style showed "They were asking for it".
Now apparently there are "caricatures of women"
At the same time women are castigated for buying in to commercialism and wearing high heels and make up.
I've decided for some of you it is just an opportunity to criticise.
There were teenage girls around yesterday in very tight shorts and skimpy tops. They looked great. But even if they didn't, if that is how they want to dress, just let them.

Glorianny women and girls are of course entitled to dress how they wish and so they should.

I was pointing out that the trans women in the media that I have seen adopt a girly persona which is not really representative of women in the 21st century.

It is what the trans women that I have seen think women are, the only way to know and feel what a women is is to be a natal women.

It is our basic human right to dress how we want, but if I dress up in a panda costume I cannot know what it’s like to feel like to be a panda and it doesn’t make me a panda (other animals are obviously available)

It was a sexual offence Glorianny. Being a man is quite important as well you know the stats.

Galaxy

Sorry choicey choice feminism doensnt do much for me. It is perfectly ok to examine why for example girls are being pressurised into botox etc, .uch more so than men, without it being a criticism of how women look.

Of course it is but that isn't what is being posted on this thread. It is plainly criticism of how someone looks.

youtu.be/yuQvju1Zm_M

Galaxy

I worked in a place where a man filmed women using the toilets, he was eventually caught. How would you advise women should have challenged this man. After all it's apparently impossible for us to know what sex people are.

What does his being a man have to do with him impinging on the privacy of other people. If this had been a company with a women CEO would that have been OK? Invasion of privacy is simply that, whoever is responsible.

Sorry choicey choice feminism doensnt do much for me. It is perfectly ok to examine why for example girls are being pressurised into botox etc, .uch more so than men, without it being a criticism of how women look.

I worked in a place where a man filmed women using the toilets, he was eventually caught. How would you advise women should have challenged this man. After all it's apparently impossible for us to know what sex people are.

GrannyGravy13

Galaxy

And talking about dresses like a woman or presents like a woman reinforces those deeply old fashioned ideas of how women should be. I dont engage in racist stereotypes because there is racism in society (and always will be) it's the same for gender.

Sorry Galaxy whenever there is an interview/article/picture of a trans woman (man) they are usually presenting as a girly woman, in overly feminine dresses, lots of makeup and what can only be described as girly gesturing.

Some of the more vociferous trans women look like caricatures of women, so overtly sexual complete with their male genitalia outlined by their tight clothing, on show for all…

The above examples are in my opinion damaging to women and young girls on so many levels.

OMG I thought we had passed the stage where we criticised people for the way they dressed. Apparently not. We have just moved on. Can I remind you that it isn't 5 minutes since women were told their dress style showed "They were asking for it".
Now apparently there are "caricatures of women"
At the same time women are castigated for buying in to commercialism and wearing high heels and make up.
I've decided for some of you it is just an opportunity to criticise.
There were teenage girls around yesterday in very tight shorts and skimpy tops. They looked great. But even if they didn't, if that is how they want to dress, just let them.

glorianny in my circles I am hearing about lesbians being abused in toilets all the time

This is not logical

The only way danger to women has increased in public bathrooms is from other women since this debate started

This is not acceptable. It's not an acceptable side effect of the trans debate

I wasnt particularly talking about that smileless I was talking about the concept of gender, that being a woman isnt a biological reality but rather how people present.

The equality act is not discrimination my beliefs reflect that act. If you want to show me anything discriminatory that I have said please do so.

Smileless2012

Re your post @ 11.10 Glorianny that's awful and as you say doesn't help women but why is it happening? Because rightly or wrongly women are afraid of intact men accessing their facilities and if men weren't doing so and never had done so, this wouldn't be an issue.

I don't recall this ever being an issue until we had the ridiculous notion that men can be women even when they retain their penis and were made aware of intact males invading women's spaces.

No it is happening because some people insist you can tell a women by the way she looks. You can't.
There have been transwomen in women's toilets since they first existed. They have entered and left without incident. Women have dressed as they wished.
At least have the grace to recognise the harm your ideas do to women. You may have the best intentions but the results are harmful.
Proving I am a woman isn't something I have ever imagined having to do, but that's the road we are going down.
Patriarchy works by having discrimination. If you assist by promoting the idea that discrimination is a good thing how does that help women?

Galaxy

And talking about dresses like a woman or presents like a woman reinforces those deeply old fashioned ideas of how women should be. I dont engage in racist stereotypes because there is racism in society (and always will be) it's the same for gender.

Sorry Galaxy whenever there is an interview/article/picture of a trans woman (man) they are usually presenting as a girly woman, in overly feminine dresses, lots of makeup and what can only be described as girly gesturing.

Some of the more vociferous trans women look like caricatures of women, so overtly sexual complete with their male genitalia outlined by their tight clothing, on show for all…

The above examples are in my opinion damaging to women and young girls on so many levels.

I don't agree in the context of this discussion that it does Galaxy and don't know an alternative way of expressing it TBH.

Mollygo

VS
If you believe I have lied, show me where.

I didn’t say you had lied.
I asked you whether you could verify your statements, showing they were true and not misrepresentations.

The option was then with you-to verify your statements or to be unable to provide verification that what you said was true.
Report away. I remember being warned.

What statements?

I don't lie so that option is out

Yes Mollygo we need to stop blaming women for ramifications due to the unacceptable and disrespectful behaviour of some trans women.

And talking about dresses like a woman or presents like a woman reinforces those deeply old fashioned ideas of how women should be. I dont engage in racist stereotypes because there is racism in society (and always will be) it's the same for gender.

Smileless2012

Re your post @ 11.10 Glorianny that's awful and as you say doesn't help women but why is it happening? Because rightly or wrongly women are afraid of intact men accessing their facilities and if men weren't doing so and never had done so, this wouldn't be an issue.

I don't recall this ever being an issue until we had the ridiculous notion that men can be women even when they retain their penis and were made aware of intact males invading women's spaces.

Exactly.
The wrongful actions of the few and their vociferous supporters are impacting on the innocent.
It’s wrong and I’m sorry it happened to her, but let’s put the blame precisely where it should be, on those males whose actions caused the concern in the first place.

Re your post @ 11.10 Glorianny that's awful and as you say doesn't help women but why is it happening? Because rightly or wrongly women are afraid of intact men accessing their facilities and if men weren't doing so and never had done so, this wouldn't be an issue.

I don't recall this ever being an issue until we had the ridiculous notion that men can be women even when they retain their penis and were made aware of intact males invading women's spaces.

No, a woman is not anyone who presents as a woman. A woman is an adult female. A trans woman is a man who through gender reassignment or who 'feels' like/identifies as a woman presents as one.

Is it any wonder that this has become so mixed up and controversial? When who ever it was first promoted the idea that a trans woman was actually a woman, did they ever consider the ramifications this would have?

Sex is based on male or female, determined by biology. Gender is a social construct. Men can and do dress, present as (sometimes with medical intervention but not always) and behave in accordance with gender norms associated with being a woman/female but they remain male.

Ah yes, the period fetishists, and the AGP’s

I agree GrannyGravy