More tory trickery for the local elections?

Mollygo at moment Germany is increasing its population so flats are the answer. There’s no way 23000 euros council tax is affordable for home owners in Germany…. Certainly the European model of building flats rather than houses seems to have taken a very strong hold in the south east. I just wish new developments weren’t being sold to the Chinese (in China) as investment opportunities.

MaizieD

volver3

The birth of a new myth.

If you didn't have voter id, it's because you didn't bother.

🤦

It's not exactly new, it's just a reworking of the 'if you wanted to remain in the EU you should have voted' trope 😁

Not a myth simply reality. Imagine someone taking responsibility for their own actions? Shouldn’t be such a novel concept

Casdon

ronib

What actual proof is there to support the argument that elections are being rigged because voters didn’t bring id with them?

There isn’t any evidence one way or the other because it’s not happened yet, this will be the first election for which voter id is required?

On the other hand, there is no evidence that not requiring voter ID caused any wholesale cheating. There has been the odd case of voter personation over the years, but one case out of 45 million voters is not going to affect any election result.

Postal voting is much easier to fiddle.

I think democracy is the myth. But am feeling curmudgeonly today.

Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time

Winston Churchill

It all depends on whether or not the restraints on absolute power are working in whatever form of democracy a country practises. That doesn't just mean voting every few years, it means the freedom to protest, freedom from political imprisonment, a truly free press/media and independent judges fir a start. People might think of other components.
Oh, and no barriers to a free vote..

M0nica

^Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time^

Winston Churchill

Perhaps we should try democracy in this country.

In a democracy, every adult is allowed to vote and the number of MPs elected is in direct proportion to the number of votes for each party.

That is what happens in every European country except for the UK and Belarus.

volver3

The birth of a new myth.

If you didn't have voter id, it's because you didn't bother.

🤦

Yes, that's about right. We've been told about it since 2017.

Freya5

volver3

The birth of a new myth.

If you didn't have voter id, it's because you didn't bother.

🤦

Yes, that's about right. We've been told about it since 2017.

Really?

When May was PM?

Was it in her manifesto?

MaizieD page 45 of the manifesto applies.

People who keep insisting that there is no evidence of voter fraud seem to be completely unaware of why voter ID was introduced in Northern Ireland. It was because the rallying call was ‘ vote early and vote often ‘ and, miraculously, the dead were found to be voting!!!

I see one of our pillars of freedom is crumbling. Republicans have been sent an intimidatory letter by the government threatening them with imprisonment if they breach the law on Saturday.

ronib

MaizieD page 45 of the manifesto applies.

Manifestos mean absolutely nothing unless the proposals are enacted. A number of policies never are. Until voter ID became law there would be no point in preparing for something that might never happen.

The requirement for voter ID only became law in April last year (2022).

Mcbab

People who keep insisting that there is no evidence of voter fraud seem to be completely unaware of why voter ID was introduced in Northern Ireland. It was because the rallying call was ‘ vote early and vote often ‘ and, miraculously, the dead were found to be voting!!!

Of course, the situation in England and Wales is so similar to that in NI when that happened...

MaizieD I thought you might have rejoiced that due process had been followed. Theresa May’s Strong and Stable Government- a manifesto pledge brought to fruition.

The need to protect democracy in Northern Ireland by introducing voter ID is understandable but totally irrelevant to the situation in England where individual voter fraud is negligible. The whole thing is a Tory scam. Pensioners are allowed to vote using their bus passes for ID but young people cannot use equivalent travel documents. It's clearly designed to tilt the vote towards the Tories given known voting patterns related to age.

A Voter Authority Certificate can be applied for if no passport, bus pass, blue badge etc. so young people are not disenfranchised.
I don’t think that young people vote in large numbers anyway but that’s a separate issue.

Well someone threw an egg against my window yesterday evening where a L Party poster was prominent so someone's hot under the collar. Wish I'd had doorbell video could have reported it.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

MaizieD I was just trying to keep up with the general direction of this thread.

Ps I think it’s called irony

MaizieD

Mcbab

People who keep insisting that there is no evidence of voter fraud seem to be completely unaware of why voter ID was introduced in Northern Ireland. It was because the rallying call was ‘ vote early and vote often ‘ and, miraculously, the dead were found to be voting!!!

Of course, the situation in England and Wales is so similar to that in NI when that happened...

You do realise that the Belfast Agreement was agreed in Northern Ireland in 1998 and voter ID was introduced in 2002 so in effect the circumstances no different to rest of U.K.
Fraud by its very nature is designed to be undetectable so it’s ridiculous to say fraud doesn’t happen.

Mcbab
yes, your point about undetected fraud is a good one. People willingly do all sorts of things e.g. on their smart phones to try and protect themselves from fraud, but that’s because nobody has told them they have to do that.
As soon as something becomes compulsory it can be railed against and declared unnecessary, an infringement of rights, etc.

I find it interesting that voter turnout in the UK is poor compared with countries that do require voter id. I suspect that people who can't be bothered to vote will just carry on not bothering. Perhaps we should ask ourselves why we have this poor turnout.

Greta I think we have a huge disconnect in the Uk between voters and the politicians at Westminster. Maybe less so at local level where you can sometimes talk to local councillors who are out and about in the community. Whether any good comes of it, is a separate issue. Our councillors relish pointing at potholes.

After the tragic killing of mps at their surgeries, security becomes even more of an issue and adds another layer to meeting face to face.

Also people often think we have been lied to and really why bother with the game of voting? Maybe a feeling of powerlessness kicks in? Some people genuinely believe that the Civil Service is running the country and that politicians are just the front men… and so ….