Zionism and Palestine

The Holocaust Museum in Jerusalem, which studies this has said that it is not anti-Semitic to criticise a states land procurement policy, and I think that this can be easily separated from the Jewish faith.

However, I think Jewish grans (I am a humanist) would have greater knowledge about Zionism and the Jewish faith, although I do know that the Jewish faith existed thousands of years before Zionism which only started I believe in Russia during the nineteenth century.

I agree GagaJo but it seems to be a political and moral mine field.

I'm a member of and march with a Scottish support for Palstine group .We have many members who are jewish who believe Israeli "policy" on Palestine is very wrong .
Surely its time to stand up to the Israeli government and say enough!

I agree.

😂😂😂😂 Total polarity of what was said on DA thread. Bizarre.

tickingbird

😂😂😂😂 Total polarity of what was said on DA thread. Bizarre.

I'm puzzled by that too.

Actually it entirely agrees with the posts on another thread. Where those posting support for Palestine and have been accused of being anti-semitic.
Israel has been designated an apartheid state by Amnesty International. The treatment of Palestinians is inhumane and should be condemned by every politician. Instead a Labour MP was forced by Starmer to apologise for stating the fact that Israel is an apartheid state.
You have to wonder what happened to a commitment to human rights

tickingbird

😂😂😂😂 Total polarity of what was said on DA thread. Bizarre.

Express an opinion then. It's an open site and an open thread.

Glorianny

Actually it entirely agrees with the posts on another thread. Where those posting support for Palestine and have been accused of being anti-semitic.
Israel has been designated an apartheid state by Amnesty International. The treatment of Palestinians is inhumane and should be condemned by every politician. Instead a Labour MP was forced by Starmer to apologise for stating the fact that Israel is an apartheid state.
You have to wonder what happened to a commitment to human rights

I agree about the LP stance on this.

But I'm also shocked at the lack of support for Palestinians in general. Not in a 'get out on the streets and protest' way, but just from the perspective of general opinion.

Why isn't this more widely supported? Did those that support Zionism also support apartheid South Africa?

Zionism came into existence because of the rampant racism experienced by Jewish people in Russia and across the continent.

I just can't get over how badly Palestinians are treated. Israel is acting like a complete bully. It's simply dreadful that Palestine isn't supported more by other countries (including UK).

It's a lot more than 'bullying' Aveline- ancestral lands are taken forcibly, ancestral villages, agricultural lands, olive groves, polluted, new towns built with all sewerage poured onto the above, and worse, and a whole people subjugated to the worst form of apartheid, racism and discrimination.

It is abhorrent in the extreme. The vast majority of Jewish people are not responsible, but by not rising against it and denouncing it, they are part of it. Those Jews that do are also reviled and their lives made a misery. Some of my Jewish friends have had to flee Israel.

www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2017/06/israel-occupation-50-years-of-dispossession/

maddyone

Zionism came into existence because of the rampant racism experienced by Jewish people in Russia and across the continent.

Which is fair enough.

But doesn't excuse the decimation of another race of people.

Trouble with posting anything which remotely criticises Israel brings instant accusation of anti semitism which it isn’t, but many are put off from speaking out.

Thanks Fleur . Hope people take the time to read the Amnesty report.

Exactly silverlining, I was going to post the same thing.

I do know that Fleurpepper I was just trying to sum up or distil the essence of what is going on. It's truly unacceptable in any civilised society. I'd be lot more impressed by Israeli people if they protested at the treatment of the Palestinians.

So what's the solution?

In essence, Zionism is about Jews having a nation state (and we all know the background to that).

A number of powerful Arab states don't recognise Israel as a nation. Their official policy is to obliterate it. Again, there is some justification for their stance - Arabs have had land taken away from them by force.

However, we are where we are. What does anybody do?

There are Jewish Israelis against Netanyahu's policies, but for many of them Israel is their home. They've were born there. What should happen to them? Netanyahu has quite a slender majority, but he plays on people's fears. He claims the alternative is for Arabs to take over Israel.

The Israel/Arab has existed for as long as I can remember and nobody has come up with a workable solution.

The whole issue has been confused by anti-semiticism and is often used to detract from the discrimination experienced by Jews. I'm afraid anybody who denies its existence is being very naive.

Aveline

I do know that Fleurpepper I was just trying to sum up or distil the essence of what is going on. It's truly unacceptable in any civilised society. I'd be lot more impressed by Israeli people if they protested at the treatment of the Palestinians.

Like this one?

www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israelis-protest-planned-judicial-overhaul-ahead-75th-independence-day-2023-04-22/

The protest which took place in Tel Aviv on Saturday.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism

The link above is to the Wikipedia page which provides a detailed history of Zionism. It’s quite detailed but makes an excellent read for anyone interested.

Yes, but such a small group and they are at true risk for doing so, including their jobs and threats to their families.

It is too 'easy', sorry, to say we are where we are, so nought can be done. Giving the land by taking it away from others was questionnable from the start. But what has and is creating massive conflict, and totally rightly, is expansion, which has been massive. And also the way expansion is done, day in, day out. Some lands should be restituted, but even then- once land is contaminated, villages and towns destroyed, olive groves which have stood for centuries, etc- it is a bit late, no? So we say, ah well- never mind, we are where we are?!?

growstuff I had to smile (although not an amusing subject) but I think this has been going on for a lot longer than you remember, unless you’re much older than I thought, maybe around a thousand years old or so. Since your username is not Methuselah, who lived to be about 960 years old, or so it is said, then I conclude that it’s definitely been going on longer than you say. The Jews were persecuted in Israel and basically encouraged to leave, or even thrown out, and this all happened in the 8th,9th, and 10th centuries. It is a historical problem and I wish I had the answer to it.
To be honest I’m a little confused about the exact geography of it all. Israel existed and so did Palestine. Did the Jews and the Arabs live happily side by side all those years ago? The expulsion of the Jews suggests not. I wish I knew more about the history of it all, but the history is definitely important to the context today.

There's no doubt that we are where we are, but that doesn't mean we have to stay in the "now", so don't try to twist my words. I have no ide what happens to the historical baggage on both sides, but there's no way forward while it's still there.

One of the problems for Palestinians is that they're fragmented and can't agree on a way forward.

www.972mag.com/palestinian-citizens-anti-government-protests/