Rotten pork

As this has degenerated into such unpleasantness I shall no longer reply to your posts.

Sorry, Katie59, you are talking nonsense. You completely do not understand that organic and PfL farming is about environmental concerns like global warming, protecting and sustaining the soil, not just meat quality.

It is about using farming methods that reduce emissions, respect the animals and ensure that they have a life that is as close to their wild habits as possible, grazing the same crops, ut with protection from starvation while at the same time , ensuring that they get medical treatment when needed.

This means lower stocking rates, no feeding of cheap dense calorie rich foods, which are unsuited to the animal#s digestion, which inevitably increases the cost of production. Red Tractor and other classifications are about product safety, minimal welfare standards but with animlas being kept at standards well below organic and at variance with PfL, and feeding them feedstuffs like maize and soya that are hugely environmentally damaging and which leads to meat having such a huge environmental footprint.

I find your comments about cars at Daylesford, quite odd. DH likes cars he can tinker with and has a fondness for SAABS, we have always gone anywhere and turned up for the smartest events in cars that are up to 20 years old - and not polished up to the nines. No one ever bats an eyelid, or treats us any differently. Old money has always been unostentatious.

organic and PfL farming is about environmental concerns like global warming, protecting and sustaining the soil, not just meat quality

Absolutely this.

Katie59

Apparently we don’t have an organic farm shop in this county, the farm I found is an online seller but the website doesn’t work so I guess they’ve given up, so the closest organic outlet is Daylesford.

I did visit with a friend last summer, we did feel outclassed, my Toyota did look out of place amongst the Range Rovers and Porsches. We did have a coffee and cake but the organic meat and produce was 3 and 4 times supermarket prices so my purse stayed in my pocket. It was obviously the place to be “seen” amongst the Cotswold set, as we left the boss arrived in the JCB helicopter, so they are not going to be short of cash anytime soon.

If anyone is gullible enough to believe that there is a significant difference between conventional and organic food they deserve to pay 4 times the price as a penalty, if you don’t like what Tesco stock, your local farm shop has a range of alternatives at a modest premium, it will be red tractor approved.

What I especially object to is the way that organic producers “rubbish” everyone else and they are the only ones that care, it’s not true everyone cares.

Perhaps you have misjudged the farm based on cars, perhaps not. You do realize farmers drive Rovers to get round their land, correct?

Yes, organic and sustainable land practices are best for the animals and for the land/environment where we all live.

I'm thinking you may be misinformed regarding sustainability.

I have never pretended to be ‘old money’, *MOnica and neither has my husband. We’re not. He drives a Range Rover because out in the sticks and with dogs, it’s practical. I drive a Porsche because I love it - not to be ostentatious.

Germanshepherdsmum

I have never pretended to be ‘old money’, *MOnica and neither has my husband. We’re not. He drives a Range Rover because out in the sticks and with dogs, it’s practical. I drive a Porsche because I love it - not to be ostentatious.

Indeed.

We live in the country with pets and have a sizable family.

Of course I drive a Rover, it is however old and quite reliable on our rutted grounds. In fact my husband drives a big 4x4 also, same reasons, German manufacture. No ostentation here.

Katie59 I did visit with a friend last summer, we did feel outclassed, my Toyota did look out of place amongst the Range Rovers and Porsches.

Surely you know some people enjoy fast cars, no matter their occupation. 'Let the horses out to run' comes to mind. My husband adores 'letting the horses out to run'. It's fun, simple as that.

So right Norah. Great fun. I can’t imagine it ever ceasing to be fun.

GSM I wasn't referring to you, I had no idea what cars you own, and to be honest I am not that interested. I was just surprised that another GN member should notice or care about these things.

Only "rotten" pork arrives from other countries? Not "rotten" chicken, beef, lamb, etc for "sandwiches" (that may or may not exist)?

I wouldn’t wish to eat any meat from another country. I want to know where it’s come from and how it was raised. If the restaurant doesn’t satisfy me on those points (and those local to me always do) I will choose the vegetarian option. I have been known to ask for confirmation that a dish didn’t include foie gras when the menu is unclear - something I utterly refuse to eat.

I wouldn’t wish to eat any meat from another country.

So do you turn vegetarian when/if you go abroad, GSM?

I haven’t been abroad for years so no problem.

Our local butcher in France has a board up in his shop telling us exactly which animal is currently being sold in his shop. All the registration details, the name of the farmer and the name of the farm. Sometimes even a photo of the animal with its proud owner. We would be able to go round and inspect the fields it had grazed in if we wished.

The butcher in my daughters village does exactly that and the farms are all very local.

Since the two butchers we use in the UK are both producer butchers, and say so, we know that all the meat comes from their own farms.

I haven't seen it in Britain, although WWM2 shows that it does happen.

Germanshepherdsmum

I haven’t been abroad for years so no problem.

Apart from meat.. go over to Germany, Italy, Austria - for fantastic fun times in better weather than my garden.

Have I got this right? Are the few posters above saying that it is OK that Brexit means any old cr*p meat can come into the UK and that it does not matter because they can afford the choice of local farm butchers? Really?

Speaking for myself - absolutely not😮. But I suggested that if I wanted to avoid crap meat then I would go to the sort of butcher/farmer described here.

But definitely I abhor what is happening and dare I say - we told you so.

(Not you of course🙂)

Certainly not.

Fleurpepper

Have I got this right? Are the few posters above saying that it is OK that Brexit means any old cr*p meat can come into the UK and that it does not matter because they can afford the choice of local farm butchers? Really?

Nobody said that.

Norah

Fleurpepper

Have I got this right? Are the few posters above saying that it is OK that Brexit means any old cr*p meat can come into the UK and that it does not matter because they can afford the choice of local farm butchers? Really?

Nobody said that.

No, nobody has said that, but no-one seems to be showing much concern for our fellow citizens who can't afford to, or can't access local butchers and farm shops but eat meat from other sources that they think is 'safe' because of our supposedly high standards but whose confidence is being exploited by our government which isn't performing checks on imported meat.

I am not saying this to be critical of them, it's just that I think I understand what Fleurpepper is getting at.

MaizieD

Norah

Fleurpepper

Have I got this right? Are the few posters above saying that it is OK that Brexit means any old cr*p meat can come into the UK and that it does not matter because they can afford the choice of local farm butchers? Really?

Nobody said that.

No, nobody has said that, but no-one seems to be showing much concern for our fellow citizens who can't afford to, or can't access local butchers and farm shops but eat meat from other sources that they think is 'safe' because of our supposedly high standards but whose confidence is being exploited by our government which isn't performing checks on imported meat.

I am not saying this to be critical of them, it's just that I think I understand what Fleurpepper is getting at.

Perhaps I misunderstood the original post, but it seems to me people could read packaging, avoid buying 'sandwich food' and such?

No idea what prepared 'sandwich food' is, why labels aren't sufficient?

Katie59

M0nica

Katie59 So it has absolutely nothing to do with restoraive farming that aims at putting the welfare of the animals and restoring the soil at the centre of farming methods, just government gobbledgook used to hide indusrial farming behind a screen of greenwsh.

Animal welfare is well taken care of with Red Tractor and Supermarket inspections, anyone proved to be breaking rules either get fined, jailed or looses the contract.

As I said Environmental enhancements, everything is micro managed now, rotations, fertilizer, chemicals, wildlife provision and I almost forgot, food production too.

That's not true Katie.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/chicken-farms-ocado-tesco-thirst-moy-park-red-tractor-animal-cruelty-a9661216.html

www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/news/pig-animal-cruelty-red-tractor-rosebury-farm-dunstable-inspectors-ban-a8470011.html

farmsnotfactories.org/articles/is-red-tractor-high-welfare

There are many more articles like this.

Choughdancer
Also this one that you conveniently ignore

www.thegrocer.co.uk/sourcing/waitrose-suspends-organic-farm-after-animal-abuse-claims/570944.article