the law as it stands on sex - part 3

Doodledog - I agree with everything you have said. Imagine giving birth through a penis - it's hystercial! How does it work anatomically?

DL Sadly stories like Leo's will surface more and more. So many young lives ruined at the holy grail of transgender ideology. Will those who informed us doctors and scientists agreed the correct treatment for dysphoria is transition now rethink? Will they feel any guilt for having supported this line of action? I'm imagining there will be an awful lot of posts on social media being deleted very soon. Thank goodness there are people who have archived many of these posts so the more famous who have endorsed this abomination will have no place to hide. But more importantly this treatment and the surgeries on children must stop immediately.

The topic of possible harm caused by puberty-blockers seems to be coming more to the fore now, as I’ve seen a few things about it lately. One person said that there are concerns that as well as blocking the physical signs of puberty it also blocks the maturation of the adolescent brain.

‘Some people’ would deny these problems, though, I’m sure.

DL I suspect we will hear more of these cases and the damage caused by this treatment. Inadequate record keeping from places like the Tavistock Clinic in the UK mean more reliance on individuals like Keira Bell coming forward to share their experiences.

It worries me that some will use this as an excuse for men just to be able to self ID as women because of the potential harm to their health and mental welbeing that surgery and/or hormone treatment might cause.
Regardless of the potential harm to the health and mental well-being of natal women that they might cause.

It also worries me that some will use this as an excuse for girls just to be able to self ID as boys because of the potential harm to their health and mental welbeing that surgery and/or hormone treatment might cause.
Regardless of the potential harm to the health and mental well-being of natal girls that they might cause.

It’s shocking that Leo suffered so much and will continue to suffer. Thank goodness the Cass report is available and GIDS likely to close. We still need medical personnel with extensive knowledge on camhs but that shouldn’t be listen to the child and help her/him start the physical process to change gender. These children can’t possibly be Gillick competent at 12

This article, from a young man in Sweden, who thought he wanted to be female, shows the physical harm that giving young people puberty blockers can cause:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10768707/When-Britain-wake-danger-giving-puberty-blockers-children.html

Very sad, poor lad. ?

Sorry, it should read ‘need for ordinary women’. My iPad has a mind of its own

Iam64

diamond lily, The need your daughter had for a private room really brought home the nerf for ‘ordinary’ women to be the focus of care in maternity units

Too true Iam64. It’s worrying that tm needs might come first.

diamond lily, The need your daughter had for a private room really brought home the nerf for ‘ordinary’ women to be the focus of care in maternity units

DiamondLily

The rooms should be used for anyone that actually needs them - including trans men.

My daughter was given one when her baby died at a day old - she needed to stay in, but they recognised the distress that would be caused by her staying on a ward full of babies and happy relatives.

Others in rooms including those that were not too well, or who had infections etc.

But, I don't think it's a good idea to allocate these rooms according to who is identifying as what.

Yes, they shouldn't be automatically allocated to anyone saying they are male, but on the basis of need.

Posted too soon - for avoidance of doubt, I definitely see changing the vocabulary that surrounds childbirth (an exclusively female thing) with 'gender-neutral' terminology is part of that erosion.

The rooms should be used for anyone that actually needs them - including trans men.

My daughter was given one when her baby died at a day old - she needed to stay in, but they recognised the distress that would be caused by her staying on a ward full of babies and happy relatives.

Others in rooms including those that were not too well, or who had infections etc.

But, I don't think it's a good idea to allocate these rooms according to who is identifying as what.

The Guardian has bought into the trans agenda massively, although The Observer makes a better fist at being sensible about it.

I don't know about paternity wards - I mean how many transmen actually give birth? It must be very few, surely?

Generally speaking, I'm not in favour of giving any type of 'awkward squad' preferential treatment just for shouting louder, but in this case, it might make sense to let them have private rooms, so long as they don't take them at the expense of women who've just had emergency sections and actually need them. Having a new baby is difficult enough, and can be confusing for women who are part of a massive support network, but it's probably terrifying for a transman who is likely to be marginalised at best.

I don't want to make life more difficult for transpeople, I just want to stop the TRA/Stonewall agenda from eroding the rights of women, and replacing us as a sex group with some sort of hybrid 'gender'.

I think these biological women, whatever they are calling themselves, need to stick to the basics.

There are (as far as I know) only two ways to give birth. Via the vagina, or by C- Section.

No one can give birth via a penis, or via the anal passage.

No one, but a biological woman can do it.

Only a biological women can suckle a baby. They do it with their breasts. There is no other "natural" way of doing it.

A biological male cannot use his chest, as far as I know. Nature has dictated that in humans.

If they are so triggered by what body parts are called, or by being near other women, how on earth will they cope with the stresses and strains of bringing up a child?

Alarming, and it's feels as if half the world has gone nuts..?

It is also recommended that they be allocated private rooms, whilst in hospital, so they are not further "triggered" and made to feel uncomfortable by seeing women in there. (I can't imagine overcrowded and 'under pressure' hospitals being too happy about that.)
Will they have men’s gowns printed with masculine images to back up their claims?

Why not let transmen call themselves and their bits whatever they want? Why does it have to affect AHF? I’d be truly “triggered” if I was referred to by their terms.

There should be “paternity wards” where transmen and all the real men delivering babies through a penis could be housed!
Will they have men’s gowns printed with masculine images to back up their claims?
Will they be so macho that they’ll turn down epidurals and gas and air? I don’t think so.???
If you want to be a transman (never a male) don’t get pregnant, don’t give birth.
By doing that, you’re simply proving you are female, not male.

Iam64

I know, the DM specialises in scandal mongering, printing nonsense about straight banana’s, etc. I’ve long believed if that paper was shut for 3 months the Uk would be a happier, less divided place.
Having said this, I write as Ms Infuriated of north Manchester. Does it matter that I feel ‘triggered’ by the notion of front delivery or chest feeding? Course not. My minority group, AHF are consigned to the back waters where we always belonged. Stroppy lot expecting equality

Yes, it is one of "those" newspapers. As with the Guardian, it has its own fixed agenda.

But, they are about the only mainstream, very popular newspaper that have taken up this issue.

And I'm glad they have.?

Rosie51
If the child is otherwise keeping their 'trans status' just between them and the teacher isn't that a safeguarding risk? Exactly, and the teacher would have to report it to the Designated Safeguarding Lead.
Obviously Mr Thatchell doesn’t know much about education . . . or possibly anything else.

Does it matter that I feel ‘triggered’ by the notion of front delivery or chest feeding? Course not. My minority group, AHF are consigned to the back waters where we always belonged. Stroppy lot expecting equality This is the problem exactly! 'Inclusive language' has a way of either dehumanising or excluding the majority. When we say we hate these terms and find them offensive, suddenly we're told we should just suck it up. I'd lay bets they'd be slower to change correct terms for other body parts and functions. I can't understand how someone can be so 'triggered' by their female anatomy being referred to in the correct terms, and yet is able to do that exclusively female thing gestate and deliver a child. Words cannot be endured but a 9 month pregnancy can? I'm thinking it's just a way of feeling 'more special'.

I know, the DM specialises in scandal mongering, printing nonsense about straight banana’s, etc. I’ve long believed if that paper was shut for 3 months the Uk would be a happier, less divided place.
Having said this, I write as Ms Infuriated of north Manchester. Does it matter that I feel ‘triggered’ by the notion of front delivery or chest feeding? Course not. My minority group, AHF are consigned to the back waters where we always belonged. Stroppy lot expecting equality

After a survey of 121 trans men, who are obviously biological women, a government funded report has urged NHS hospitals to use terms such as "frontal birth" instead of vaginal birth, and to use "chest feeding" instead of breast feeding.

This is because previously used terms, known to everyone, apparently "triggers" the trans folk. ?

It is also recommended that they be allocated private rooms, whilst in hospital, so they are not further "triggered" and made to feel uncomfortable by seeing women in there. (I can't imagine overcrowded and 'under pressure' hospitals being too happy about that.)

I'm so happy that I am long past childbearing age and not having to be subjected to this nonsense.?

www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-10762815/NHS-urged-use-terms-chestfeeding-frontal-birth-instead-breastfeeding-vaginal-birth.html

Peter Tatchell seems to be losing the plot.

I agree Doodledog there needs to one or two toilets where opposite sex parents can take their child, but for the majority single sex provision would be preferable.

As for the Peter Tatchell comment. If a teacher thinks a child's confusion over their sex shouldn't be communicated to a parent, then surely there are other concerns too? Children need support to examine their feelings, not secretive affirmation. Anyway if the child is being referred to with a different name by his/her classmates surely that will get back to the parents in the end via other parents? If the child is otherwise keeping their 'trans status' just between them and the teacher isn't that a safeguarding risk?

I have mixed feelings about the GN toilets in a children't park. There will be children there with parents of the opposite sex, and if they are very young they might need help to use the loo.

The possible downsides are obvious, of course, and shouldn't be ignored. Perhaps a separate Ladies, a Gents and a parent and child loo (locked at night) would have been better?

Gender neutral toilets have been introduced in a children's play park.

What could possibly go wrong? ?

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10755719/The-Way-Unisex-Fury-gender-neutral-toilets-childrens-play-park-Brentwood.html

It could of course put some trans children at risk', he said. 'If parents are informed without the consultation of the child, there are some parents who are very hostile to having a trans child and we know that some trans children are subjected to emotional and psychological bullying to stop them being trans.
And I know that some trans children -whether genuinely trans or not are capable of subjecting other children to emotional and psychological bullying for not agreeing to be trans.
In school we are told not to promise to keep children’s revelations in confidence, because they have to be raised with the DSL.
Whether keeping trans concerns from parents is right or not, the children should be offered support, but by whom?