the law as it stands on sex

Trisher
I've no desire to see women inspected to see if they look feminine enough, female enough.
Me neither, but an obvious male claiming to be a woman, in a place where he isn’t supposed to be, that’s another issue.

Unfortunately your version of woman covers any man who says he is one
So you are technically saying
you have no desire to see men or women inspected to see if they look feminine enough, female enough.
If they’re not somewhere they shouldn’t be I’ve no wish to inspect them either and certainly not to use your famous grope technique.

maybe your kindometer is on the blink?

Post of the day!!!

I find calling trans people a man in a dress offensive but I don't cry about it

But I'd don't have the right to police it others and neither do you

It has literally no meaning other than this side

I have also seen its use ignored when posters like Elegran use it so there is no weight behind claiming offense I'm afraid so I'd let that one go reallyb

Scuse errors busy day and pain medication

VioletSky

Rosie I am really disappointed with you pulling up that one word.

In my repotoire it's the least offensive term, in others it isn't

You can use any word you wish

I didn't in fact call you a cis anything

This is exhausting

I'm really disappointed you chose to suggest I'd use the word 'cis' to anyone when I find it totally offensive, as lots of us have said time and again. I wouldn't dream of applying the label 'cis' to anyone with all that it implies about adherence to an ideology. I thought labelling other people was wrong?

I think asking for a cis woman would be the most respectful way to do that so that implies me asking for a female is disrespectful, how utterly bizarre, not to say insulting. Why is the word female not respectful? Is the word male equally not to be used?

I find calling trans people a man in a dress offensive but I don't cry about it
Ah, but I didn’t call transpeople men in dresses. I called men in dresses men in dresses, and quite deliberately separated them from transpeople. If you scroll back you’ll see for yourself .

And I, for one, am not crying about the ‘c-word’. I mentioned its offensiveness only as I know how you like to be kind, and thought you might like me to return the kindness after you so generously advised me on the subject earlier.

I'm a cis woman

I'm sorry that offends because I am obviously the wrong sort of woman

I see Doodledog is still trying to get me to answer what "presents as a women" means. I have answered before and you didn't like it. So let's turn the question on its head. If you are going to distinguish between transwomen and women you are going to need some way of doing it. Personally I'll just go by what someone says and accept them. It's been posted quite regularly that men are bigger stronger and it's obvious. So what do you intend? Will there be a height limit for women, if so will short men pass? Will women who lift weights have to carry ID to prove they aren't men? Let's stop thinking about how I define "presents as a women" because I'm really not uptight about it and let's have some statements about how you would differentiate. The idea that you can always tell is so wrong

Incidently the instances of racism and the extreme acts carried out by some people were we now realise fuelled by a society that permitted abuse and inaccurate information about black people to be widely circulated. It's why we have policies in schools and other organisations to stop racism and report racist incidents and speech. It would seem apparent to me that posting the idea that all transpeople are somehow responsible for the assaults carried out by a few who may or may not be genuine trans will fuel transphobia and lead to more attacks. So how do you feel about posting things which will lead to violence and discrimination?

I'm a cis woman as well VioletSky
If it was meant as a term of abuse (and I've never regarded it as such). I'm reclaiming it!

Remind me of what you said before, please, trisher? I remember you saying that your definition of a woman was someone who ‘presents as one’, but not an explanation of what that meant.

I fail to see what racism has to do with any of this.

Good idea trisher

I'm a cis woman and very proud of it and actually no one has any right to tell any other woman how they should identify.

Obviously that's just one small facet of a much larger issue but one I've decided I won't back down on.

I got to be a woman the easy way.

Oh how hard we have worked to push back against discrimination against women yet apparently its allowable by women now if you are the wrong sort of woman.

Some of the cruelest things in my life have come from women and yet, I love and adore so very many of them.

Obviously if it's an offensive term, then there will be some sort of repurcussion from using it.... I will wait and see but I am pretty confident I am OK.

VioletSky

I'm a cis woman

I'm sorry that offends because I am obviously the wrong sort of woman

Good for you! You label yourself any way you like.
You do realise that label was initiated by the transgender community, labelling others?

I'm a cis woman and very proud of it and actually no one has any right to tell any other woman how they should identify. and yet you thought in my theoretical scenario I should have asked for a 'cis woman' because that's more respectful. Wouldn't that be telling another woman how she should identify?

Where has this ‘wrong sort of woman/lesbian/feminist’ trope come from? It seems to be parroted a lot, doesn’t it?

I'm sorry you weren't happy with part of the answer Rosie at least I assume you are fine with the rest of it because you have only pulled me up on the use of a word.

Can I have an answer now please?

How are you going to make clear to a receptionist you do not want a trans person attending you?

All your focus on cis but it was simply the first word my mind grabbed to help you out with your problem.

But your problem remains, how will you resolve it?

Also 2nd question, would you be happy if a trans man attended you? If so how will you state that a trans man is fine and a trans woman is not?

VioletSky

I'm sorry you weren't happy with part of the answer Rosie at least I assume you are fine with the rest of it because you have only pulled me up on the use of a word.

Can I have an answer now please?

How are you going to make clear to a receptionist you do not want a trans person attending you?

All your focus on cis but it was simply the first word my mind grabbed to help you out with your problem.

But your problem remains, how will you resolve it?

Please don't make assumptions about what I'm fine with.

Question 1 I ask for a female. A transwoman is not a female, they are male or else there wouldn't be anything to transition from. Were you not aware of this?

Question 2 I've asked for a female. If a transman, who passes, comes to attend me I will ask if they are a transman since I requested a female. If they are happy to confirm their transition status (something your pal trisher deemed totally unacceptable by the way) then fine, you may examine me.

Is this OK with you? This is how you answer questions, with honesty and straightforwardly. You might like to practise doing the same.

Can I have an answer now please, preferably in plain English? If I ask for a female and I would hope a doctor would know what a female is, and a transwoman doctor, therefore male, attends, are they respecting my right to informed consent. Yes or no?

So it seems the ciswomen (who are proud of it) don’t care if AHF are upset by being faced with a TW (who would undoubtedly claim to be a ciswoman if he thought it would get him some advantage he’s not entitled to), when they’ve asked for a female.
That’s not being kind.

Don’t care if AHF find ciswoman an offensive term.
Don’t care is not being kind

Say
Oh how hard we have worked to push back against discrimination against women yet apparently its allowable by women now if you are the wrong sort of woman

Which is a meaningless statement, because they believe men are women.

For them, the wrong sort of women are those who don’t believe men are AHF women,
and the ciswoman (and proud of it) posting on here find no problem in discriminating against them.

I expect they see that as being kind. Two words frequently misused by them.

I will ignore the barbs for sake of an important problem with your answer

If a person has a GRC (gender Recognition Certificate) then they will be legally female and their workplace will likely have polices in effect that protect that.

So your problem is not resolved.

It also means I can't answer your followup question Rosie

Now, I do think that your medical or mental health needs matter more than your fears or concerns about trans people. Although of course I an emergency situation you wouldn't be in a position to do much about it unless you get it inscribed on some sort of braclett... Although I would hope they would save your life rather than respect that...

So anyway, how are you going to resolve your issues at the doctors surgery under the laws, legislations and equalirlty protections we have now

So sadly Rosie51, what I’m reading is that it’s OK. to discriminate against natal females, but not against transwomen.
And . . . transwomen are biologically male, so it’s OK to discriminate against females but not against males.
How does ANYONE see that as equality!

It's not equality. It's full advantage to men, whatever they choose to identify as.

But while some people think people with a penis are women, it will never be fair to biological women.

I would say I do not want to be examined by a man. I am not scared of transpeople. How bizarre to think I am. I am not scared of men. I dont want a man to perform an intimate medical procedure for example.

I'm a woman, NOT a "cis woman," you can also call me an adult human female.

Well here's a suggestion . Identify as a cis-woman. Use it on everything. Claim it. When you have a medical examination ask for a cis-woman. Let's do what the suffragettes did, take a term we've been given and use it to make ourselves stronger.

No thanks Trisher. I feel the women campaigning to retain single sex spaces are doing ok so far, dont think they need that kind of advice on strategy.

If I go my GP, or a hospital, and know that the doctor or consultant is a man, then no problem.

If I go, expecting a female nurse, doctor or consultant, or have requested that, then I expect a biological women to examine me.

I don't expect or want a man trying to fool me that he's a woman.