Is Macron sabre rattling?

Here is the Jersey Govt statement from last week on the real position as the media are incapable of journalism

“We are extremely disappointed at the French government's announcement, made yesterday afternoon, pursuing an approach of retaliatory measures. Yesterday morning, Government of Jersey officers met officials from France, the UK and the European Commission, and made further progress on the outstanding applications from French vessels for licences to fish in Jersey's territorial waters.

"The outcome of that meeting was that 162 French vessels will be licensed to fish in Jersey's territorial waters from this Friday.

"Of the 162 licences, 113 are permanent (categorised as "Green") and 49 will be issued as temporary ("Orange"). Vessels that receive a temporary licence will be able to fish in Jersey waters until 31 January 2022, to give them time to provide further data which is necessary to secure a permanent licence. Jersey officials have agreed to examine in detail additional evidence that has been provided by French authorities in the last week.

"Currently there are 55 vessels in a third ("Red") category that will not have a licence to fish in Jersey waters after 31 October (this Sunday). The door remains open for further data to be submitted, and new applications that meet the criteria under the TCA can be submitted at any time”

But ... Let’s face it though - Jersey still buckled by allowing those with no rights to fish temporarily whilst they forge evidence of historical fishing.

Holland however is a Member of the EU, and will support France, quite naturally.

Gabrielle56

Scones

I think this is one of those issues manipulated by politicians and certain sections of the press to
a) make our government appear reasonable and strong in the face of a pretend enemy, and
b) to distract the credulous masses with something they can get riled up about rather than have them focus on more important realities.

Our government is there not to make a song and dance and threats all over the papers but to diplomatically, quietly and without risk resolve this situation with a country who have been our ally for 200 years.

Ally? Who dat?! Thy hate us, always have. De Gaulle blocked our entry to eec twice and campaigned vociferously to keep us out of europe.why? ......they hate us ! We have such a history of kicking their backsides, everywhere from Quebec to Malta and beyond.....and they never forgot or forgave us . The special relationship rubbish is simply because it's the first stage in any journey to rest of world, we usually have to step across France to get anywhere east, culturally and psychologically we're much more like the Germans, so the sooner we all come to terms and learn to accept it and stop trying to be 'best buddies' the better

In order to support your argument that the French "hate us and always have", do you have any evidence more recent than a story about a French president who died 71 years ago and two incidents which occurred in 1790 and 1760?

France isn't 'the first stage in any journey to the rest of the world'. A journey to 'the rest of the world' doesn't have to commence on foot via Calais. America is in the other direction for example.

It is possible to have a good relationship with people who are different from you.

You seem very angry about the French. Is there a reason for that?

Urmstongran

Boris is failing to read the room no one has thr appetite for this scare mongering hot on the heels of covid disaster scare tactics we are sick to death of, we need to recover, regain jobs, warm homes pay bills, survive winter, feed kids don't tell us about another disaster whilst you all get on super sized aeroplanes.... the ordinary working person is not interested and the Tactics of XR insulate Britain ad nauseam have given us an aversion to climate change politics.

It is not scaremongering. This is a worldwide climate disaster about to befall us all, maybe us older folk will die before it happens, but the child for whom you are chopping fruit today will hopefully still be walking what we leave of this earth in 2080. If we don't act, what will it be like here then? Too hot? Forest fires? No bees? Hundreds of species of animals extinct? Large parts of the world uninhabitable?

You are not speaking for me when you say 'don't tell us about another disaster'. I want them to tell us until they are blue in the face whilst we still have time to put this right.

This ordinary person is very interested in climate change and whilst I don't agree with some of the methods used by XR and Insulate Britain they have no impact on my thoughts on climate change.

This isn’t true. The President of the Jersey fishers association has spoken about the French demands to have no restrictions placed on them, whilst Jersey fishermen continue to operate within the restraints of their licences.

Well, I read it in an in depth article about the dispute that I read a few days ago. Of course, I can't find it now.

I'd take the President of the Jersey fishers with a pinch of salt. 'Presidents' of organisations don't always reflect the view of their members. I seem to recall the NFU advising farmers not to vote for Brexit, but a majority went ahead and did it

Going back to Castex's words, it seems that the French media also interpret his words as meaning that the UK should be punished:

www.leparisien.fr/international/tensions-sur-la-peche-macron-et-johnson-pronent-une-desescalade-a-lissue-de-leur-rencontre-31-10-2021-ESKOTP2JEFBKFC6C5EXXXWH4ME.php

Le Premier ministre français y juge « indispensable de montrer clairement aux opinions publiques européennes(…)qu’il y a davantage de dommages à quitter l’UE qu’à y rester ». En clair, le Royaume-Uni devrait être puni pour avoir quitté l’Union européenne.

My translation of the comment in bold is: In plain language, the United Kingdom must be punished for having left the European Union.

Make of that what you will.

My own gut instinct was that that it's exactly how it was meant to be taken, even if the exact translation leaves it (deliberately?) open to debate. That's why I went looking for the French 'take' on it.

I haven't been deliberately selective, but that was the first article I could access without agreeing to too many cookies etc., so I don't know if that is how all the French media view it.

Urmstongran

No I didn’t expect a smooth ride. Definitely expected some bumps in the road. However, recently the EU took off 80% of checks for produce going to N.I. Now, if that were possible, why did they insist on so many checks in the first place?

That's not quite what I was asking, Ug. How did you visualise, for example, our future trading relationships with the EU once we'd become a competitor rather than a partner? Bearing in mind that most of our trade was with the EU...

Honestly it sometimes feels on here that some people's view of the French has not moved on from hanging a monkey.
?

Just to make it clear, the French comment in bold was part of the article. I struggle with formatting on here, and and failed to keep that bit in italics too.

I think from what I have read that a couple of newspapers took that view MamaCaz, but not widespread. Most papers took the view that he was simply repeating a phrase used lots of times before, basically if you leave a union you can't expect to be better off outside than in. The rest of the letter shows no sign of intent, it is all about the need to respect an agreement that you have signed.
It hasn't been big news here, the thing about the Australian PM made the lunchtime news today, but not the fishing dispute. It isn't even the lead in the Ouest France, which you might expect.

Thanks, Mamie, that is interesting to know.

There was a time when I was quite clued up on French news, but we lost access to French satellite TV a while back, and since then, I've let it slide, I'm afraid,

MaizieD

^This isn’t true. The President of the Jersey fishers association has spoken about the French demands to have no restrictions placed on them, whilst Jersey fishermen continue to operate within the restraints of their licences.^

Well, I read it in an in depth article about the dispute that I read a few days ago. Of course, I can't find it now.

I'd take the President of the Jersey fishers with a pinch of salt. 'Presidents' of organisations don't always reflect the view of their members. I seem to recall the NFU advising farmers not to vote for Brexit, but a majority went ahead and did it

Ok. I expect the fishermen of Jersey will let the President of their Association know that he doesn’t represent them and doesn’t speak for them. And that you do.?

So how about Jerseys Environment Minister who has for some time pressed concerns about over-fishing and the sustainability of the marine environment. And who said some time ago that quotas needed to be put in place or readjusted.

Are you in favour of no catch limits on French boats only? Or no catch limits for everyone?

Interestingly there has not been the same problem in Guernsey. Apparently the authorities there have taken a far more positive and collaborative approach and licences have been agreed.

MerylStreep

*New Jersey*
And this from a poster who’s always giving us in the uk geography lessons as to where our ports are situated.

? ?????

I have lived here over 30 years and I have never ever encountered anomosity towards my nationality.

I have often wondered (especially since I came on Gransnet) why people are so obsessed with the French and how many English people actually know a French person well enough to
form any opinion.

It is beyond belief to say 'the French hate us' , they don't give a toss , they get on with their own lives and their own problems

I don't know any Spanish people or Italian and wouldn't dream of judging them collectively.

It is clear that opinions are formed from the gutter press

Let’s face it the Brexit debacle has given the green light to anti-anyone- foreign xenophobes to voice their opinion of millions of people as in “ the French”, “the Germans”, “the Italians” etc as if everyone of a certain nationality can be lumped together.

Ok. I expect the fishermen of Jersey will let the President of their Association know that he doesn’t represent them and doesn’t speak for them. And that you do.?

There's no need to get uppity about it. I was just passing on something that I'd read and reminding you that the NFU, probably an equivalent sort of organisation, doesn't speak for all farmers.

vegansrock

Let’s face it the Brexit debacle has given the green light to anti-anyone- foreign xenophobes to voice their opinion of millions of people as in “ the French”, “the Germans”, “the Italians” etc as if everyone of a certain nationality can be lumped together.

Which is the best possible illustration of why Europe is so so important, and why Churchill just post-war realised that it was essential.

Excellent article by Jenkins today in the Guardian discussing both NI protocol and this latest fishing row. Both are linked to no longer being members of the Customs Union and Single Market. Remember the days when Hannan said 'no-one, but no-one is even considering leaving either'? He was so right of course. But Johnson, Frost and Truss can huff and puff - the whole of Europe is standing firm together, and with the clear support of the USA. So they can huff, and puff some more- and Macron will be the winner ...

Most UK fleets are already foreign owned anyhow.

I mean Liz Truss saying to the French President 'sort it ... or else'

or else what? They are just making themselves look total fools and the whole country with it, sadly.

How about the other part if my post?

Are you in favour of the no limits demands just for French vessels or for everyone!

vegansrock

Let’s face it the Brexit debacle has given the green light to anti-anyone- foreign xenophobes to voice their opinion of millions of people as in “ the French”, “the Germans”, “the Italians” etc as if everyone of a certain nationality can be lumped together.

Well to be fair and honest. Many of you on here clump all British and our nation in the same way, with disdain and ridicule. If it comes to the crunch I will back my country and it’s people over any foreign President, French, German whatever.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/nov/01/fish-france-johnson-broken-britain-european-single-market

the full article

''The UK’s decision to leave the EU was political. So be it. Quite different was the decision also to leave the European single market and free trade area, which was the personal choice of Johnson to aid his campaign against Theresa May. It was ill-considered and foolish. The price is now being paid by pig farmers and fruit growers, healthcare managers, transport sector recruiters, builders, hoteliers, musicians and Ulster unionists. Hardly a single gain has accrued to leaving the European market. Meanwhile, a widening 10-point gap exists between those who think Brexit a bad deal for the country against those who still think it good.

Every woe currently descending on Johnson’s head is attributable not to Brexit but to the loss of the single market and customs union. ''

I actually disagree with Jenkins- Brexit is very mcuh part of this too. But not being in the CU and SM is what is causing the most damage currently.

halfpint1

I have lived here over 30 years and I have never ever encountered anomosity towards my nationality.

I have often wondered (especially since I came on Gransnet) why people are so obsessed with the French and how many English people actually know a French person well enough to
form any opinion.

It is beyond belief to say 'the French hate us' , they don't give a toss , they get on with their own lives and their own problems

I don't know any Spanish people or Italian and wouldn't dream of judging them collectively.

It is clear that opinions are formed from the gutter press

I agree halfpint that "The French hate us" saying is banded about far too often. It almost becomes a daily script in certain newspapers.

Long ago, however, when I was to marry into a French family, my French relatives-to-be kindly told me they would love me like their own and that they liked me once they got to know me!. Merci beaucoup!
Back on English soil my mother was refusing to offer any support or encouragement if I went to live in France. Great!
So I more than most know that some underlying animosity must exist.

If the current situation regarding Brexit weren't so serious, it would almost be amusing.