"gesture politics"

Take the knee.
Don't take it.
It's hardly worth arguing about because it's peaceful, hurts nobody (apart from people with bad knees) and shows support for a good cause.
I don't remember all this fuss when people were clapping for the nhs workers.

Has anyone else noticed that a popular defence of people who disapprove of taking the knee is that "lots of black people don't like it either"?

Saetana you are going to be disappointed if you are expecting people to see the sportsmen taking the knee and have a Damascene moment, where they suddenly realise they are lifelong racists and decide to change their ways.

But if teams are spending a few seconds making a sign to indicate that racism is still a problem, and that makes people think about it - like we are doing now - then it might be useful to ask why people are so against it?

I'm sure it will have an impact on people who post racist things online, knowing that others are keeping a watchful eye.
And I really so think people are, of late.

Saetana

Polarbear2 Oh please - that is insinuating everyone who does not support taking the knee is racist! I was watching an interesting interview on the BBC a few days ago with a black professor who said this is exactly the problem - people should not be labelled as racist because they do not support the empty gesture of taking the knee. As I said earlier, taking the knee does absolutely nothing to end actual racism - please do tell if you happen to know differently.

I didn’t say or imply racism. I said it made people think about an issue they’d prefer to ignore. I’m not sure that’s the same?? I actually think many people over ~60 are a tiny bit racist even if we think we aren’t. The world we grew up in was very different to the one we have now. Think about those 70s tv programmes which wouldn’t see the light of day now. Comedians like Charlie White? The Black and White Minstrels? It had an influence on us surely? I think racism and other prejudices will disappear over time as our children and their children grow up and become adults. I’m less racist than my mum. I try hard not to be racist at all but I’m sure I trip up sometimes as I’m not perfect. My kids hardly notice race - it’s just not a thing. Their kids will inherit a very different, hopefully better, world.

Polarbear2

I was born in 1947 and so was a child and teenager when the Black and White Minstrel Show was on. For me, it was akin to listening to the Billy Cotton Band Show. No way. I think that others of my generation would feel the same way.

I saw the Tamla Motown Road show in 1965. Before that other black musicians had toured in England. They were surprised at the welcome that they received and that they could stay in the same hotels and eat in the same restaurants as white people. Admittedly not the same attitude as pertained in Rackman's London.

PS I had no idea who Charlie White was and had to google him. Still no idea.

Charlie Williams.

Freudian slip, maybe.

I don't think that it is a Freudian slip, no
Charlie Williams said 'I don't have any regrets, I chose jokes that I thought would suit the audience'
How very sad and indicative of the racism that is so deeply ingrained in our society
Then and sadly, even now

Charlie Williams from Barnsley was one of Britain's first black professional footballers before he was a comedian on TV.
I don't think we have a right to judge his conforming to his rascist peers level of comedy. It was a horrible time and thank God most of us see it for the disgusting dirt it was.
Seeing Charlie Williams on TV was good for black kids watching and an influence on Lenny Henry sometimes people felt that was the best way to deal with the abhorrent rascism by laughing at themselves.
Hopefully in the future the rascists will be defeated and those who defend them. hopefully evolution will rid us of such ignorance and disgusting attitudes.

Charlie Williams!! I spent ages trying to remember the name. Sorry all. I’m also sorry if I caused offence. I was just trying to say racism is heavily ingrained. We can be better but it doesn’t hurt to admit we’re not perfect. Taking the knee - which this is about - helps highlight the injustice and makes us pay attention. Happy Sunday everyone. X