A big thank you to those who voted for Brexit

Ellianne Many years ago, whilst on holiday in Italy we saw a lot of regeneration work going on in the small towns, a lot funded by EU money. This was when Thatcher was PM and for some reason she did not ask for EU money for such purposes.

Hull is one city that benefited EU funding, Liverpool and Glasgow to name but two more. The latter two being European Cities of Culture.

Small towns have also benefited. Framlingham in Suffolk, near where I used to live had a makeover a few years ago using EU money. It was a lovely town before the improvements but has a lot of history attached to it. The Castle was given to Mary Tudor by her brother and in the church there are some magnificent tombs of various Howards (Dukes of Norfolk) one of which is brightly painted.

One reason for the regeneration of East London is that it was the cheapest place left in which to live close to Central London. Also the Olympics.

By the way, I assume that you mean Paul Signac?

Ellianne

^you are great lovers of Europe and some of you claim to have travelled extensively in many EU member states and have intimate knowledge of the views and opinions of the natives^
That I most definitely do, having lived, studied, worked and loved (enough to be married) for many years in France.
But then lately I saw at first hand that EU laws were not being taking seriously by all members, that I was laughed at for sticking so religiously to the rules for paying cotisations when running my own business, that the hand outs from the EU seemed far more generous to France than those afforded to the UK. It started to affect my thinking.

As for culture, I'm an East London girl and our area saw huge regeneration in 2012 and still beyond without EU involvement. Other areas will also flourish as we are witnessing and many have plans to re invent themselves post Brexit.
And as for artists and their paintings, I much prefer to see Scrignac's works in the sunny musée de Saint Tropez than in a drizzly British art gallery!

I was talking about this (i.e knowledge of Europe) in relation to the idea that the 'EU' is about to become one country.

Nothing to do with perceived rule stretching and inter country inequalities.

TBH, I think you'll find people in any country ready to laugh at others who stick to the 'rules' on taxation etc. So not sure how relevant it is. Do you think you were laughed at because you were British?

you are great lovers of Europe and some of you claim to have travelled extensively in many EU member states and have intimate knowledge of the views and opinions of the natives
That I most definitely do, having lived, studied, worked and loved (enough to be married) for many years in France.
But then lately I saw at first hand that EU laws were not being taking seriously by all members, that I was laughed at for sticking so religiously to the rules for paying cotisations when running my own business, that the hand outs from the EU seemed far more generous to France than those afforded to the UK. It started to affect my thinking.

As for culture, I'm an East London girl and our area saw huge regeneration in 2012 and still beyond without EU involvement. Other areas will also flourish as we are witnessing and many have plans to re invent themselves post Brexit.
And as for artists and their paintings, I much prefer to see Scrignac's works in the sunny musée de Saint Tropez than in a drizzly British art gallery!

Well, Come on.

Who is going to force the EU member states to become one country?

It's actually another Leave lie that Ted Heath said that the EEC was nothing but a trading bloc. I have seen the literature put out at the time and footage of speeches etc. in which it was made very clear that it was more than just trade.

FGS, there was a strong political motive in even forming it. To prevent European countries going to war with each other again. To recognise, celebrate and work on what they had in common and to integrate to the point that war would be unthinkable.

A pretty fine achievement, I think (and nothing to do with Nato) except that some British people don't seem to be able to gget over WW1 & WW2

My son and his family live in Germany, and since lockdown we have been sending parcels for my dgs. Christmas was the start of brexit problems the parcel was delayed and missed christmas, however we sent his big present from Amazon.de so that was ok. It's his 4th birthday beginning of February and I have sent his birthday parcel early. I needed 4 customs forms and contents were restricted, all this for some toys and clothes. I use DPD who are excellent as they provided all the forms and good guidance notes. Hope Scotland gets independence and we can rejoin the EU.

Maddyone Of course it wasn't just about trade. It was about friendship and security and cultural ties. Sadly these topics weren't often mentioned by the Remainers in the govt before the referendum. If they had been openly discussed more people might have thought differently.

Another thing that has been forgotten by many or perhaps they weren't even aware of it, was the EU Capital of Culture.
The intention was that the chosen city would benefit from regeneration, the raising of its international profile a boost to tourism and culture. Glasgow and Liverpool benefited from this.

The exchange of artworks for exhibitions is going to be much more difficult. I remember whilst on holiday going to the Matisse Gallery in Nice, only to find that may of its paintings were missing. The reason - several of his later ones, the cutouts, were at Tate Modern.

maddyone

Anyone who even pretends that the EU doesn’t have ambitions to become a country similar to the USA, with what we now know as countries actually becoming states, is at best, being disingenuous. Even Winston Churchill promoted the idea of a United States of Europe as being the only way Europe could enjoy peace and prosperity after WW2. Whether or not he was correct is debatable. However many people believed the lies told by Sir Edward Heath that the EEC as it was then, was nothing more than a trading block. It is not a trading block, although trade has an important role. The EU is first and foremost a political organisation, and basically that’s why remainers and leavers will never be able to agree. People either support a political union, or they don’t.

That is a regular Brexit hobby horse it is rubbish.
ALL EU nations have a serious national identity and Pride, none more so than France and they are at the center of EU unity.

MaizieD I'm with you on that one. The words that are going through my head are very different to those that I type.

Living in France one is well aware how proud they are of their own nation. When we were talking about applying for residency here an French friend told us that another English couple were going for citizenship and asked whether we were. Our response was that we are English and we remain English, even though we chose not to live there.

I guess you’re surprised Maizie because you know I voted remain. I voted remain on the grounds that we were doing pretty well economically in the EU and felt why rock the boat? But that doesn’t mean I couldn’t see the other side, the political side of the EU and actually not like very much what I saw. I had concerns about ‘further integration’ but I put them to one side in favour of the economic arguments.
I don’t know what I’d vote now, but it’s a moot argument since we won’t be voting again any time soon. We just have to get on with what we’ve got, it’s a nuisance that trade is disrupted but we just have to get on with it. It’s an even bigger nuisance that it came right in the middle of Covid but again we just have to get on with it. But please let’s not pretend that it was ever about trade and economics only, it wasn’t, and therefore people are bound to disagree till the cows come home. If it was merely about trade there’d be little dissent.

Jaberwok

Over many years this country has been persistently derided and laughed at by the EU, we are according to them, a cold damp inconsequential little island off the northern coast of Europe, completely unimportant to the point of obscurity! If this is the case, as we have been told umpteen times, why on earth are they so furious at our leaving to the point of punishment leading hopefully to bankruptcy? I would have thought they would have been thankful to see the back of this ridiculous unimportant idiotic island and not cared what we did! Weird or what.

Whenever I've seen film of the EU in action or read about it in the press they have been nothing but polite about the UK.

Concorde was a joint French/English operation and Airbus is a joint EU operation , including England. Erasmus still is a joint EU operation despite the UK leaving. There are several joint scientific programmes.

If the EU had such a low opinion of us, why would they want to include in all these operations?

Finally, they are not punishing us, they are treating us in the same way as they treat every other third country.

I'm really surprised at maddyone

You Leavers keep on telling us that you are great lovers of Europe and some of you claim to have travelled extensively in many EU member states and have intimate knowledge of the views and opinions of the natives.

So how come you have missed that all the countries within the EU are fiercely proud of their nationhood, their cultures and traditions?

It is beyond all reason to nourish the belief that they want to become one single country. Many of them aren't even very keen on the idea of a European federation. So how do you think overcoming all this would be achieved and who do you think would be the prime enabler of such an move.

And how on earth has Jaberwok ended up with the utterly ludicrous belief that the UK has been persistently derided and laughed at by the 'EU'. ? WE WERE ONE OF THE TOP THREE NATIONS IN THE EU.

* WHO CREATED THE SINGLE MARKET WHICH EVERYBODY LOVED?* (and which we're bloody well missing being part of right now?)

Gnet doesn't allow me to express my opinion of this lunacy...

Sorry WW it is not those who voted leave that are hysterical.

Trumpism ?

Jaberwok

Over many years this country has been persistently derided and laughed at by the EU, we are according to them, a cold damp inconsequential little island off the northern coast of Europe, completely unimportant to the point of obscurity! If this is the case, as we have been told umpteen times, why on earth are they so furious at our leaving to the point of punishment leading hopefully to bankruptcy? I would have thought they would have been thankful to see the back of this ridiculous unimportant idiotic island and not cared what we did! Weird or what.

Trump lives on.

Indeed Jaberwok.

Anyone who even pretends that the EU doesn’t have ambitions to become a country similar to the USA, with what we now know as countries actually becoming states, is at best, being disingenuous. Even Winston Churchill promoted the idea of a United States of Europe as being the only way Europe could enjoy peace and prosperity after WW2. Whether or not he was correct is debatable. However many people believed the lies told by Sir Edward Heath that the EEC as it was then, was nothing more than a trading block. It is not a trading block, although trade has an important role. The EU is first and foremost a political organisation, and basically that’s why remainers and leavers will never be able to agree. People either support a political union, or they don’t.

Over many years this country has been persistently derided and laughed at by the EU, we are according to them, a cold damp inconsequential little island off the northern coast of Europe, completely unimportant to the point of obscurity! If this is the case, as we have been told umpteen times, why on earth are they so furious at our leaving to the point of punishment leading hopefully to bankruptcy? I would have thought they would have been thankful to see the back of this ridiculous unimportant idiotic island and not cared what we did! Weird or what.

GrannyGravy13

Greta

GrannyGravy13, The EU is more than a trading block. EU ambassadors are there to support and educate non-EU nations about EU and to strengthen EU's influence in the wider world. It's not just about trade as you seem to think. In all areas we are stronger together.

The very idea of educate non-EU nations is verification of my vote.

I was being facetious using the term trading block in hindsight I should probably of used ^the expensive club that has the intentions of controlling the whole of Europe and beyond^

You have no idea how stupidly hysterical this sounds.

It's like Trumpism transferred in a different form to the UK.

Not my own work, but:

Precisely why not recognising EU Ambassador is petty idiocy

It's NOT a philosophical debate on whether the EU is a country or not. That certain competencies have evolved to EU level is a diplomatic fact. Why would you not want direct mutual access?

I agree with your last paragraph Grannygravy did I read somewhere they now have a uniformed security service. Macron has aspirations to be President of Europe.

Greta

*GrannyGravy13*, The EU is more than a trading block. EU ambassadors are there to support and educate non-EU nations about EU and to strengthen EU's influence in the wider world. It's not just about trade as you seem to think. In all areas we are stronger together.

The very idea of educate non-EU nations is verification of my vote.

I was being facetious using the term trading block in hindsight I should probably of used the expensive club that has the intentions of controlling the whole of Europe and beyond

No wonder people vote to leave the EU if they think it is only a trading block. It is much more than that, but leavers don't care about that. With comments like GG13's it's no wonder that some remainers, myself included, still continue to rail against brexit.

GrannyGravy13, The EU is more than a trading block. EU ambassadors are there to support and educate non-EU nations about EU and to strengthen EU's influence in the wider world. It's not just about trade as you seem to think. In all areas we are stronger together.

I can understand why a trading block would have need of a representative but have no idea why a trading block needs an Ambassador with full diplomatic status.

GrannyGravy13

Why does the EU need an Ambassador, it is not a Country posters have been repeatedly pointing out that the EU is a trading block ?

The member states of the EU have Ambassadors

I can see you've been reading different newspaper's, GG13

The EU has had ambassadors since 2010 and the UK was one of the Member States that voted for this.

To refuse to recognise an EU Ambassador now just looks like an act of petty spite and further sours relations with our largest trading partner.

Isn't enough that the UK has acted to cripple huge swathes of our business sectors, much to the astonishment of the rest of the world, without lowering its global standing much further by refusing to acknowledge an EU ambassador?

Here is a list of countries which have accorded their EU ambassador full diplomatic status

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ambassadors_of_the_European_Union