A big thank you to those who voted for Brexit

My goodness so much of what he writes is resonant of Trumpland.

Do let me recommend chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/ again, as he attempts to deal with the very attitude of leave voters that we have discussed above. He says:

Ever since the Referendum it seems as if Brexiters have both expected and needed those who disagreed with them to recant and to acknowledge that, after all, Brexiters had been right.

He points out that remain voters also try convince to leave voters that they made a mistake. However, he does not believe - as I said some days ago - that if we had stayed in the EU people would have been trying to convince leave voters to change their stance. Elsewhere he quotes a letter to the Times asking for unity “we should all of us be looking forward to the future and how we can now help our country succeed. This includes ‘remoaners’ who wish to wallow in the past.” This is so like the comments we see on here. Who writes such things and thinks they will bring unity?

He goes on to say Several factors lie behind this Brexiter need for affirmation. He suggests that these include insecurity, a lurking knowledge that what they have brought about is so damaging, and some ‘remainer negativity’ which has soured what was supposed to be a moment of triumph. He also suggests that some leave voters believe themselves to have been a ‘resistance’ movement that has enacted a national liberation, they expected the whole of the country to welcome it and cannot see why they don't. And for some of the most vociferous Brexiters that links to a populist authoritarianism, in which opponents are derided as traitors and saboteurs. This is where we come to what appears to be a demand for support of Brexit even going as far as equating the mob at the Capitol with those who campaigned peacefully for a second referendum

He continues Apart from being a morally contemptible and intellectually vacuous false equivalence, it is hardly likely to engender ‘togetherness’ and is ironic given that it was Nigel Farage who once threatened to “pick up a rifle” if a “proper Brexit” was not delivered, and that numerous Brexiters talked of riots and civil disorder in the event of another referendum. And, in case anyone has forgotten, the only example of lethal violence in relation to Brexit was the murder of Labour MP Jo Cox by a far-right terrorist.

It is certainly worth reading the full article. I think he is right in as much as we will not achieve any "coming together" while suggestions for such a thing are design to split people into two camps.

Joelsnan

Oh dear, I am more than happy for you all to wallow in your misery. It is much brighter for those who can look at this status as an opportunity, people who are not averse to change and can move on .
Those who say joining was not an issue and decimalisation too have selective memories to try to support their current arguments.

Which opportunities are you so optimistic about?

Maybe instead of putting people down as complainers, you can share your upsides

I don't know about Spain but in France people who are not resident here will have to pay more in tax and social charges on rents from their holiday homes. That is assuming that they have declared the income in France and also, of course in the UK. In which case DTR will come into play.

According to the brexit supporting Daily Express-

"Britons with Spanish holiday homes dealt unexpected tax bill"

www.express.co.uk/life-style/property/1381261/brexit-news-property-abroad-spain-holiday-homes-tax-EU-country-Europe

In fact there is nothing unexpected about this "swinging" tax rise as Brits with holiday homes in Spain were warned that this would happen if the UK left the EU and was therefore treated as a third country.

They were also warned that the time they were allowed to stay in these homes would be limited. They were warned, yet some ignored the warning.

The tweet and graph above were flagged up in chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/ Two paragraphs give a flavour.

Moreover, from now on it will be possible to compare the realities of Brexit with what was claimed or promised for it. I don’t think that doing so amounts to “leap[ing] with glee onto every bureaucratic bump in the road out of Europe”, as counselled against by the columnist Clare Foges in a thoughtful article in The Times this week (£), and it most certainly isn’t, and shouldn’t be taken as, what she rightly calls “gruesome” relish in “businesses suffering or Leave-voting areas getting poorer”. Regular readers of this blog will know that I have repeatedly warned against that on grounds of both principle and political tactics.

Rather, it has two purposes, one being the primarily analytical one of making sense of events and the other the political one that it is legitimate and necessary to hold accountable those who made these claims and promises. Truth matters; at least I think it does, or at any rate that it should.

Lots of sevilles here in Normandy Dinahmo. We are on our second batch. ?

This is a very interesting graph. It is easier to see in twitter
twitter.com/Usherwood/status/1345755484251443202/photo/1

How ever I have included it for those who can't see it.

GrannyGravy13

I can speak from the experience of the first five working days and so far in the business community that we belong to there have been a couple of small hiccups.

Companies still trading, fresh goods clearing customs into the UK taking an hour longer (approximately).

I thoroughly expect my observation/knowledge to be dismissed as anecdotal but hey ho!

Anecdotal is OK - we all speak from our own experience from time to time. However, the criticisms have been about delays in produce leaving the UK, not entering.

Power grab by the U.K. government. You start with lies and end with a very British coup.

Prof Tanja Bueltmann

The problems in the US? They didn’t start with a violent mob storming the Capitol. They started with Trump’s lies and his hollowing out of democracy. Exactly what consecutive UK Governments have been doing for years. And Brexit is their tool to do it with.

Welshwife GF at Perigueux. I'm hoping to pass by there during the coming week in order to buy some fruit for marmalade.

According to some I should not be thinking about a British food product but making do with a French substitute. Marmalade they cannot do, at least I haven't found any.

Democracy under pressure

Govt accused of undermining EU trade deal scrutiny, as
@Jacob_Rees_Mogg
shuts down Commons #Brexit committee independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-committee-jacob-rees-mogg-eu-trade-deal-b1784512.html…
More & more examples of
@BorisJohnson
Govt's power grabbing, dismantling of Parliament's sovereignty/our representative democracy. People wake up!

Lemongrove and Joelsnan You assume far too much. I don't think that any of us are wallowing in misery. What we have done, are doing and will continue to do is to draw peoples' attention to what is actually happening.

Most people will get on with their lives and endeavour to be happy and make the best of things.

I think that Johnson early on in the pandemic should have delayed the final withdrawal from the EU. Workers and business owners have had enough to cope with during this period without the added aggravation that is now happening. He could have done it and the EU would have agreed. But no, his ego meant that he had to go ahead regardless.

As for the promised sunny uplands they're not going to happen with this current govt. Johnson has promised that there will be a green initiative and I have no doubt that the "promised" funds will go to his cronies.

I can speak from the experience of the first five working days and so far in the business community that we belong to there have been a couple of small hiccups.

Companies still trading, fresh goods clearing customs into the UK taking an hour longer (approximately).

I thoroughly expect my observation/knowledge to be dismissed as anecdotal but hey ho!

Joelsnan

Oh dear, I am more than happy for you all to wallow in your misery. It is much brighter for those who can look at this status as an opportunity, people who are not averse to change and can move on .
Those who say joining was not an issue and decimalisation too have selective memories to try to support their current arguments.

Joelsnan your posts are sensible and a breath of fresh air, so welcome back to the forum.
I have long come to the conclusion that misery likes company and will be sought out eagerly.
Just over a week since we have been trading under different rules, and after so long doing things another way it’s bound to take some time.Most if not all, understand that.

Joelsnan, I am old enough to remember both the events you mentioned particularly decimilisation, which as you so rightly said pushed all prices up, some sky high, having of course been promised that levelling out would be downwards! Err NO! What I remember mostly was the price of meat especially NZ lamb, and being suddenly aware that the price of joining the Common Market was the abandonment of the Commowealth in favour of Europe. What a shameful thing to do and being unaware I'd voted for it! price rises were a problem, but in time it sorted out.

I think that posters talking of "bumps in the road" are missing the bigger picture. There are certainly short-term issues that can and will be solved. The real issue is that when you make trade harder by increasing regulation, you cause your market to shrink. We saw the rise in UK economic prosperity that came with the opening up of the single market, it is therefore pretty obvious that leaving it will cause economic decline. I have yet to see anything that convinces me that people on Gransnet being positive and "not averse to change" will make a blind bit of difference to the economic impact. It might mean that you are resolutely cheerful about making your children and grandchildren poorer, but frankly I find it hard to understand that point of view.

The problem for those who still try to defend the worst mistake this country ever made, is that it is all too easy to find bad news about brexit and well nigh impossible to find any good news.

No wonder Joelsnan is struggling.

Joelsnan

Oh dear, I am more than happy for you all to wallow in your misery. It is much brighter for those who can look at this status as an opportunity, people who are not averse to change and can move on .
Those who say joining was not an issue and decimalisation too have selective memories to try to support their current arguments.

Being pragmatic is not wallowing in misery. Get rid of the idea leave voters are special; they are not. They will live, die, go without, attain, just as everyone else will. However, that fall from the Emperors' new horse many not do them any good at all. Stop puffing out your chests - you just become the vision of a little person with a big ego - and look at the situation for what it is.

Of course it is an opportunity but not one the leave voter can take while they are so busy attacking other individuals in this democracy where all votes are equal but can change in the future. I can see leavers them still talking about the vote and being as insulting as they can get away with in another four years and possibly another four after that. Perhaps, and I say this very gently, it is time you moved on to what is happening now and in the future rather than the past.

Joelsnan

Oh dear, I am more than happy for you all to wallow in your misery. It is much brighter for those who can look at this status as an opportunity, people who are not averse to change and can move on .
Those who say joining was not an issue and decimalisation too have selective memories to try to support their current arguments.

I'll take that as a 'NO', then, Joelsnan.

You've no idea of what wonderful opportunities are in store.

Talk of 'selective memories' is a bit rich coming from people who don't seem to be able to remember the lies they were told 4 years ago and who try to pass off the warnings given by Remain and firmly dismissed as 'Project Fear', as 'We knew it wasn't going to be easy'. Because if you did 'know' that it certainly wasn't your 'side' that was telling you; it was us...

And now you're complaining that we're not happy about it.. Jeez...

Welshwife Sat 09-Jan-21 11:46:31
I find the fact that so many businesses are finding it very difficult to comply with the new forms needed and the journey time making sending fish etc all very sad.

It is just another example of how incompetent this government is. Brexit or no brexit the government should have had this sorted. It is now about whether having made a complete pig's ear of a trade agreement, allowed far more people to die than a country like our should during Covid and allowed the change in status re the EU to go ahead with too little information for businesses is actually in any way proficient enough, skilled enough or knowledgeable enough to move us forward.

They say Trump could not take a written briefing; they had to read it to him inserting the word "Trump" often enough to keep his attention. I worry that we also have people who just don't have the capacity to deal with all they have brought on us.

Oh dear, I am more than happy for you all to wallow in your misery. It is much brighter for those who can look at this status as an opportunity, people who are not averse to change and can move on .
Those who say joining was not an issue and decimalisation too have selective memories to try to support their current arguments.

Joelsnan

After a while away, it’s interesting to see the ‘usual suspects still trying to justify their anger at losing a democratic vote buy searching msm for issues for validation.
No one expected sunny uplands on 1st January. To those who can remember...Was the transition into the Common market without issue for days/months even years? Was decimalisation smooth and without disruption or cost?
When you move to a new home do things magically fall into place and you know immediately where things are and how to use all them?
I do think that always looking for problems rather than opportunities must be quite depressing and especially with the current pandemic, should try to avoid.

No one that I have seen, other than you, has referred to the leave/remain vote. I haven't come across anyone on here who isn't intelligent enough to know that is dead, we have left. What people are comparing are the lies, deceptions and hoodwinking with the actuality. You make it sound as if your idea of a "democratic" vote one where half the country (or more) are never allowed to speak again or hold an opinion about where we are now.

I think we have just seen an example of where that leads. It is surely time those who voted to leave forget the referendum and get on with our future and the issues arising from our new relationship. It is perfectly democratic for people to call out the misinformation people were fed by comparison to the actuality.

It is undemocratic to try to silence them doing so.

I find the fact that so many businesses are finding it very difficult to comply with the new forms needed and the journey time making sending fish etc all very sad. Even if there are some changes to try and help this situation it will be too late for many and it is often difficult to get back to how things were.
Dinahmo do you use the Bergerac Grand Frais? I find their fish is usually very good. I shall keep a watch and see if they are able to continue to have the Scottish smoked salmon etc.
Anyone coming to the EU for an extended stay needs to make sure they have enough medication with them as it seems UK prescriptions will no longer be dispensed in the EU.

No one expected sunny uplands on 1st January.

Well, that's very odd, Joelsnan, because the Leave campaigners never, in the course of their campaign, said anything about 'bumps' or difficulties', or mountains of extra red tape. It was sunlit uplands all the way. Easiest deal in history, 'no-one talking about leaving the single market' (that was a favourite of our latest ennobled Leave Liar),

The only people who pointed out the problems were Remainers who were dismissed with 'Project Fear'. Which has been shouted continuously for the last 4 years.

So will you Leavers stop trying to rewrite history to accommodate reality.

I do think that always looking for problems rather than opportunities must be quite depressing..

What is depressing is the fact that NO ONE has actually identified any 'opportunities'. It's not up to us Remainers to do it, you know, it's up to you lot.

So go on, tell us what wonderful opportunities are opening up. Silence on this will be taken as an inability to think of any.

(and please, no nonsense about freedom to trade with the rest of the world. We have been trading with the rest of the world all the time we were in the EU. Or had you failed to notice that little detail)