A big thank you to those who voted for Brexit

Indeed Jaberwok.

Jaberwok

Over many years this country has been persistently derided and laughed at by the EU, we are according to them, a cold damp inconsequential little island off the northern coast of Europe, completely unimportant to the point of obscurity! If this is the case, as we have been told umpteen times, why on earth are they so furious at our leaving to the point of punishment leading hopefully to bankruptcy? I would have thought they would have been thankful to see the back of this ridiculous unimportant idiotic island and not cared what we did! Weird or what.

Trump lives on.

Sorry WW it is not those who voted leave that are hysterical.

Trumpism ?

I'm really surprised at maddyone

You Leavers keep on telling us that you are great lovers of Europe and some of you claim to have travelled extensively in many EU member states and have intimate knowledge of the views and opinions of the natives.

So how come you have missed that all the countries within the EU are fiercely proud of their nationhood, their cultures and traditions?

It is beyond all reason to nourish the belief that they want to become one single country. Many of them aren't even very keen on the idea of a European federation. So how do you think overcoming all this would be achieved and who do you think would be the prime enabler of such an move.

And how on earth has Jaberwok ended up with the utterly ludicrous belief that the UK has been persistently derided and laughed at by the 'EU'. ? WE WERE ONE OF THE TOP THREE NATIONS IN THE EU.

* WHO CREATED THE SINGLE MARKET WHICH EVERYBODY LOVED?* (and which we're bloody well missing being part of right now?)

Gnet doesn't allow me to express my opinion of this lunacy...

Jaberwok

Over many years this country has been persistently derided and laughed at by the EU, we are according to them, a cold damp inconsequential little island off the northern coast of Europe, completely unimportant to the point of obscurity! If this is the case, as we have been told umpteen times, why on earth are they so furious at our leaving to the point of punishment leading hopefully to bankruptcy? I would have thought they would have been thankful to see the back of this ridiculous unimportant idiotic island and not cared what we did! Weird or what.

Whenever I've seen film of the EU in action or read about it in the press they have been nothing but polite about the UK.

Concorde was a joint French/English operation and Airbus is a joint EU operation , including England. Erasmus still is a joint EU operation despite the UK leaving. There are several joint scientific programmes.

If the EU had such a low opinion of us, why would they want to include in all these operations?

Finally, they are not punishing us, they are treating us in the same way as they treat every other third country.

I guess you’re surprised Maizie because you know I voted remain. I voted remain on the grounds that we were doing pretty well economically in the EU and felt why rock the boat? But that doesn’t mean I couldn’t see the other side, the political side of the EU and actually not like very much what I saw. I had concerns about ‘further integration’ but I put them to one side in favour of the economic arguments.
I don’t know what I’d vote now, but it’s a moot argument since we won’t be voting again any time soon. We just have to get on with what we’ve got, it’s a nuisance that trade is disrupted but we just have to get on with it. It’s an even bigger nuisance that it came right in the middle of Covid but again we just have to get on with it. But please let’s not pretend that it was ever about trade and economics only, it wasn’t, and therefore people are bound to disagree till the cows come home. If it was merely about trade there’d be little dissent.

MaizieD I'm with you on that one. The words that are going through my head are very different to those that I type.

Living in France one is well aware how proud they are of their own nation. When we were talking about applying for residency here an French friend told us that another English couple were going for citizenship and asked whether we were. Our response was that we are English and we remain English, even though we chose not to live there.

maddyone

Anyone who even pretends that the EU doesn’t have ambitions to become a country similar to the USA, with what we now know as countries actually becoming states, is at best, being disingenuous. Even Winston Churchill promoted the idea of a United States of Europe as being the only way Europe could enjoy peace and prosperity after WW2. Whether or not he was correct is debatable. However many people believed the lies told by Sir Edward Heath that the EEC as it was then, was nothing more than a trading block. It is not a trading block, although trade has an important role. The EU is first and foremost a political organisation, and basically that’s why remainers and leavers will never be able to agree. People either support a political union, or they don’t.

That is a regular Brexit hobby horse it is rubbish.
ALL EU nations have a serious national identity and Pride, none more so than France and they are at the center of EU unity.

Maddyone Of course it wasn't just about trade. It was about friendship and security and cultural ties. Sadly these topics weren't often mentioned by the Remainers in the govt before the referendum. If they had been openly discussed more people might have thought differently.

Another thing that has been forgotten by many or perhaps they weren't even aware of it, was the EU Capital of Culture.
The intention was that the chosen city would benefit from regeneration, the raising of its international profile a boost to tourism and culture. Glasgow and Liverpool benefited from this.

The exchange of artworks for exhibitions is going to be much more difficult. I remember whilst on holiday going to the Matisse Gallery in Nice, only to find that may of its paintings were missing. The reason - several of his later ones, the cutouts, were at Tate Modern.

My son and his family live in Germany, and since lockdown we have been sending parcels for my dgs. Christmas was the start of brexit problems the parcel was delayed and missed christmas, however we sent his big present from Amazon.de so that was ok. It's his 4th birthday beginning of February and I have sent his birthday parcel early. I needed 4 customs forms and contents were restricted, all this for some toys and clothes. I use DPD who are excellent as they provided all the forms and good guidance notes. Hope Scotland gets independence and we can rejoin the EU.

Well, Come on.

Who is going to force the EU member states to become one country?

It's actually another Leave lie that Ted Heath said that the EEC was nothing but a trading bloc. I have seen the literature put out at the time and footage of speeches etc. in which it was made very clear that it was more than just trade.

FGS, there was a strong political motive in even forming it. To prevent European countries going to war with each other again. To recognise, celebrate and work on what they had in common and to integrate to the point that war would be unthinkable.

A pretty fine achievement, I think (and nothing to do with Nato) except that some British people don't seem to be able to gget over WW1 & WW2

you are great lovers of Europe and some of you claim to have travelled extensively in many EU member states and have intimate knowledge of the views and opinions of the natives
That I most definitely do, having lived, studied, worked and loved (enough to be married) for many years in France.
But then lately I saw at first hand that EU laws were not being taking seriously by all members, that I was laughed at for sticking so religiously to the rules for paying cotisations when running my own business, that the hand outs from the EU seemed far more generous to France than those afforded to the UK. It started to affect my thinking.

As for culture, I'm an East London girl and our area saw huge regeneration in 2012 and still beyond without EU involvement. Other areas will also flourish as we are witnessing and many have plans to re invent themselves post Brexit.
And as for artists and their paintings, I much prefer to see Scrignac's works in the sunny musée de Saint Tropez than in a drizzly British art gallery!

Ellianne

^you are great lovers of Europe and some of you claim to have travelled extensively in many EU member states and have intimate knowledge of the views and opinions of the natives^
That I most definitely do, having lived, studied, worked and loved (enough to be married) for many years in France.
But then lately I saw at first hand that EU laws were not being taking seriously by all members, that I was laughed at for sticking so religiously to the rules for paying cotisations when running my own business, that the hand outs from the EU seemed far more generous to France than those afforded to the UK. It started to affect my thinking.

As for culture, I'm an East London girl and our area saw huge regeneration in 2012 and still beyond without EU involvement. Other areas will also flourish as we are witnessing and many have plans to re invent themselves post Brexit.
And as for artists and their paintings, I much prefer to see Scrignac's works in the sunny musée de Saint Tropez than in a drizzly British art gallery!

I was talking about this (i.e knowledge of Europe) in relation to the idea that the 'EU' is about to become one country.

Nothing to do with perceived rule stretching and inter country inequalities.

TBH, I think you'll find people in any country ready to laugh at others who stick to the 'rules' on taxation etc. So not sure how relevant it is. Do you think you were laughed at because you were British?

Ellianne Many years ago, whilst on holiday in Italy we saw a lot of regeneration work going on in the small towns, a lot funded by EU money. This was when Thatcher was PM and for some reason she did not ask for EU money for such purposes.

Hull is one city that benefited EU funding, Liverpool and Glasgow to name but two more. The latter two being European Cities of Culture.

Small towns have also benefited. Framlingham in Suffolk, near where I used to live had a makeover a few years ago using EU money. It was a lovely town before the improvements but has a lot of history attached to it. The Castle was given to Mary Tudor by her brother and in the church there are some magnificent tombs of various Howards (Dukes of Norfolk) one of which is brightly painted.

One reason for the regeneration of East London is that it was the cheapest place left in which to live close to Central London. Also the Olympics.

By the way, I assume that you mean Paul Signac?

Ellianne I forgot to add that the Brits aren't exactly quick to pay the correct taxes. I've asked the question before and I'm not asking you personally but, I often wonder how many people pay for cleaning, gardening, painting and decorating in cash to avoid paying VAT.

By the way, I assume that you mean Paul Signac
Oops sorry, my phone picked up Scrignac from the memory, the village where we had friends in Brittany!
Signac the artist of course. Thanks.

Dinahmo

Ellianne I forgot to add that the Brits aren't exactly quick to pay the correct taxes. I've asked the question before and I'm not asking you personally but, I often wonder how many people pay for cleaning, gardening, painting and decorating in cash to avoid paying VAT.

Definitely, Dinahmo, but I guess when I lived in a foreign country I felt the need to be more than squeaky clean! Almost out of respect?

Sorry MaizieD I thought I picked up on the word culture somewhere in your post.
I'll leave others to the EU/one country discussion.

Ellianne

Sorry MaizieD I thought I picked up on the word culture somewhere in your post.
I'll leave others to the EU/one country discussion.

I believe that my original sentence was something like ''countries that are proud of their nationality, their culture and customs'... when I was asking the question does anyone seriously believe that they would want to be amalgamated as one country?

The weirdest thing is that many European countries which exist now have had past experience of being taken over by other regimes, or being practically obliterated by other regimes, and haven't exactly liked it. There was the great nationalist push against the Habsburgs for self rule in the 19th C, for example. Why would they tolerate it it now?

MaizieD: The weirdest thing is that many European countries which exist now have had past experience of being taken over by other regimes, or being practically obliterated by other regimes, and haven't exactly liked it.

Borders within Europe have been a moveable feast. The Scandinavian countries were not always living in peaceful harmony. Norway gained their independence from Sweden in 1905. Denmark had also claimed Norway from time to time. Finland belonged to Sweden for hundreds of years. Parts of southern Sweden swung like a pendulum between Denmark and Sweden.

This shared history has meant that most of us Scandis feel like family. The languages are very similar (Finnish an exception) and this has further cemented the closeness between us. However, each country definitely has its own strong identity.

... not to mention Alsace-Lorraine or Poland.

A bad decision damages the Us standing in the world. Now that Trump has gone BJ seems to want to be the petulant toddler amongst leaders.

www.independent.co.uk/independentpremium/uk-news/brexit-uk-eu-diplomatic-status-boris-johnson-b1790770.html

A bad decision for the UK

Borders have moved a lot in a relatively short period for sure. Yugoslavia, most Easter countries. Italy was only united not so long ago, same for France. Even my part of Switzerland was part of Prussia and ruled from Berlin until 1848!

My Godmother was born in 1910 in Alsace. In 1914, her father told all the children they must never speak French again- and to be quiet until they could speak German. In 1918, having learnt German and forgotten French, she and her sibblings were told never to speak German again, and be quiet until they remembered their French!

Let's inject some positivity into this post. Today the head of Nissan has said ' Brexit will turbocharge its business' and will probably double production at it's Sunderland site.
Time to stop wittering on about petty difficulties that affect us personally and think of the advantages that will benefit our nation as a whole.