A big thank you to those who voted for Brexit

Beg to disagree with you there seamstress and MaizieD.

Yes, right now - 14 days (!) after we’ve left there’s a muddle of red tape. It will get better. People on both sides of the Channel and the North Sea will get to grips with the necessary bar codes and paperwork. Boris has promised to help Scottish fishermen financially in the short interim that this will take.

However I firmly believe that we will prosper ‘mightily’ in the coming months and years, so much so that at the next GE people will be much happier, won’t want to rejoin the awful EU and could well vote Tory in again!

I need to look back at this post of mine in just over 3 years’ time ...
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Alexa you posted "it is the Conservatives not ordinary people who are to blame". How do you define "ordinary people"?

You also posted that you "despise the Conservatives. All of them" so, if you were to meet someone for the first time, would you ask them if they're a Conservative and if they are, automatically despise them, before actually getting to know them?

Urmstongran

I do understand that I need to own the consequences of my vote MaizieD. I have never implied I didn’t. In fact (horrors) I’d vote the same way again, given a re-run.

And MayBee check out my historic posts. I always said a deal would be better and always said we’d be better with one.

I wasn’t referring to how you’d voted. I was talking about the implication that remain voters wanted everything to fall apart and for people to suffer just so they could prove a point. When all we’ve ever wanted is what’s best for this country and the people in it.

I really think that those Leavers who are pleased that we've 'left' the EU, just don't understand that we are as enmeshed with the EU as we ever have been.

I agree, seamstress. There will be quiet renegotiations and realignments and we'll be back in all but name within a very short time. Because what we have now is going to hurt even more people than have been hurt already and at some point they will rebel...

I think rejoining will be much later.

Brexit will have to be 'watered down" over the next months and years, when the colossal inconveniences and downright nonsensical bureaucracy becomes ever apparent. It will be done quietly, with slight amendments and renegotiations so that the Fartages of this world don't really notice. It will involve more concessions and cost way more £££s than it ever cost us before. But heyho.

I would vote the same way if we had another referendum tomorrow.I am very pleased indeed that we are out, but I don’t expect Remainers to rejoice, just to accept it happened and get on with it.
It’s highly unlikely that we will ever rejoin the EU and certainly not in our lifetime or probably our children's either.
The EU may have dissolved by then anyway, as more countries in the future opt to leave.

I do understand that I need to own the consequences of my vote MaizieD. I have never implied I didn’t. In fact (horrors) I’d vote the same way again, given a re-run.

And MayBee check out my historic posts. I always said a deal would be better and always said we’d be better with one.

MayBee so many Remainers in the HoC supported taking No Deal off the table!

That’s the only reason in the end you had to accept this ‘very thin’ (Starmer) deal.

Without that caveat the EU just knew they had us over a barrel.

“Will they really walk?”

pippaZ this bit is what I vehemently did not agree with ...

Cindersdad
Though I have not yet been affected by Brexit I have always said that it was and continues to be a colossal mistake. Over the coming months it will strike home though masked by Covid affecting more of us. In some ways I hope it goes badly and the government is forced to beg to rejoin, with or without a referendum.. (my underlining).

That was the remark I said was right up any Remain voter’s Utopia.

Not the bit about a 2nd referendum (won’t happen anyway) or the next GE when Labour might try to water Brexit down.

I was therefore misquoted earlier.

If those of us that voted remain really wanted the country to fall apart after brexit to prove a point we wouldn’t have supported the awful deal that we’ve ended up with. We did so because so many people would have suffered greatly from no deal. We would have been happily cheering on a no deal scenario. As it was it was leave voters that were happy, in general to see us leave with no deal. Which makes no sense to me. But then not many things do these days.

‘My vote counted, just the same as yours’.

But you don't seem to understand, Ug, that you need to own the consequences of your vote.

No PippaZ don’t misquote me please. Urmstongran Thu 14-Jan-21 14:38:40

I did not "misquote" you. The quote was directly from your post and in no way tampered with.

A lot of sanctimonious posts on here. People taking the higher ground.

Let me just shout up to you all...
‘My vote counted, just the same as yours’.

Sorry about my IQ deficit it must irritate the hell out of some of you!
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In mitigation I did what homework I could on the EU. And as I’ve never joined Facebook so adverts there never affected my decision.

PS it is the Conservatives not ordinary people who are to blame. I despise the Conservatives . All of them .

Well, there are always going to be gullible people.

I knew they were lies, so did 16 million other people. What does that say about the people who didn't know, or didn't care?

It certainly doesn't say anything that makes one feel any empathy with them.

What is still intriguing me is that we have a very bad 'deal', that ties us in to the EU's 'rules' without having any say and which will give us even more economic grief if we try to diverge from them. Yet the Leavers really don't seem to have grasped this. I would have thought they'd be furious about it.

So we've ended up still closely tied to the EU but on much worse terms than when we were a member.

Why on earth did we bother?

Nothing lasts for ever. Brexit won’t last as nothing about it makes any sense at all.

Alexa

It is not entirely fair to blame voters for Brexit. There was a huge advertising campaign by the Conservative party to get people to vote Brexit.People were lied to.

I knew they were lies, so did 16 million other people. What does that say about the people who didn't know, or didn't care?

(Hard hat on)

It is not entirely fair to blame voters for Brexit. There was a huge advertising campaign by the Conservative party to get people to vote Brexit.People were lied to.

No PippaZ don’t misquote me please. I was referring of course to unilaterally revoking the result of the referendum as posited bet Cindersdad which was (unsurprisingly) so heavily endorsed not once, but twice (!) by MaizieD and WhiteWave. That would indeed be a Remainer’s ideal scenario. Let’s just disregard the referendum eh? A lá Jo Swinson! And look where her views took her ...
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And varian those who could be bothered took themselves down to the polling booths on the day or arranged for a postal vote. The result stands.

Yes, sadly, some people who voted to Leave will have died (my mum for one, RIP lovely lady), some - both ways actually - will have changed their minds and some young ‘uns who weren’t old enough to vote last time would be eligible now and could give their opinions to a pollster.

Who believes the polls get it right anyway? Mostly they don’t.
And anyway, the referendum was held. People voted in good faith according to their viewpoint.

It’s over.
It stands & it won’t be re-run.

The overwhelming weight of opinion polls have shown that the majority think we were wrong to vote to leave the EU.

whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/in-highsight-do-you-think-britain-was-right-or-wrong-to-vote-to-leave-the-eu/?removed

Urmstongran

Different strokes for different folks I suppose PippaZ. All any of us can do is put a cross on a ballot paper when the correct time comes along.

That’s democracy.

Or ... we can campaign for a second referendum or attempt to get a GE vote that would change things. Trump was trying to suppress any possibility of change away from his power as were some in this country led by Johnson. This is what creates in your mind the fact that YOU believe it is ok to suggest other people's views are "A Remainer’s wet dream, right there."

Those currently in power in this country would not allow a second vote and did not give us a first one that was balanced for the fact that we would not be able to vote on it again.

Different strokes for different folks I suppose PippaZ. All any of us can do is put a cross on a ballot paper when the correct time comes along.

That’s democracy.

I suppose I play Devil’s Advocate sometimes, just pointing out to all the Democrat fans on here that more than 70 million (just let that number of voters sink in for a minute) are very disappointed right now.

But this was a chance for those who have seen what Trump is made of to come out in even greater numbers. Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, Nigel Farage, Jabob Rees Mogg, Aaron Banks, Steven Baker and ERG have also been recognised for what they are but no second vote for those who now outnumber their supporters.

how do you reconcile your hope that Brexit goes so badly the government is forced to beg to be allowed back in, with or without a referendum, with your statement that you believe in democracy Cindersdad?

If you believed in democracy regardless of the result of the referendum, you'd accept the result.

More than 4 years of claims that the referendum was based on lies, was fraudulent and illegal. Let's hope we don't have to listen to Trump continuing with the same claims for as long.