on both sides of the pond- the extreme left is scuppering their own cause

Dinamo

Sorry but I don't understand how your response answers the statement.

' Some people think that by voting Conservative they somehow become one of the better off by association'.

Every political party will tell you you /the voter will be better off if you vote for them.

How does anybody become better off by ' association'?

Although the Fail has a big article in which it praises Starmer.

He wrote a piece, about getting children back to school, for the Mail on Sunday this weekend, didn't he?

Perhaps they are going to back him..

That would cause ABSOLUTE RUCTIONS

As it was, left-wing twitter exploded with anti-Starmer tweets on Sunday... for writing the piece for the MoS.

So the right wing media are now to blame for Starmer not being visible. Don't I seem to remember several people saying we shouldn't blame the MSM for Corbyn's defeat? With so many other outlets to release statements through isn't that a bit insupportable?
As for his attitude This very much sums it up for me Tweeted on Aug 14th
Time is running out. We need action in days, not weeks. That also means an urgent technical review of the standardisation model ahead of GCSE results next week.

We need to end this fiasco.
7:26 am · 14 Aug 2020·Twitter for iPhone
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Retweets and comments
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Dr Donna Peach
@Donna_Peach
·
14 Aug
Replying to
@Keir_Starmer
Why are you not demanding the gov't revert to the teachers predicted grades or to last year's grades?

Why are you not showing decisive leadership?

We need more from you .
@Keir_Starmer

We need it now!
So true!

Callistemon

Well, I think several days ago Starmer was calling for an invisible Johnson to come and take charge of the 'A' level results fiasco.
Perhaps some posters missed it.

However, there is a Shadow Education Secretary whose brief it must be to speak out in response to Gavin Williamson.

Yes and she has. Perhaps you missed it?

She was on television as well as social media, as is Starmer.

He has been on this morning.

I can’t think why people are so insistent that he isnt saying anything.

I think it is because they must believe the right wing media who try to ignore Starmer as he is clearly a threat to Johnson.

Although the Fail has a big article in which it praises Starmer.

Well, I think several days ago Starmer was calling for an invisible Johnson to come and take charge of the 'A' level results fiasco.
Perhaps some posters missed it.

However, there is a Shadow Education Secretary whose brief it must be to speak out in response to Gavin Williamson.

biba70

oh, go back to bed Grandad - honestly.

My thoughts exactly. Banging the same old drum which we've heard for more years than i care to remember.

POGS

' Some people think that by voting Conservative they somehow become one of the better off by association'.
-

How does that work then?

If you vote Tory you wear a badge and things will fall in your lap, go the front of the queue?

Who knows how you vote?

They tell us? When you talk politics they make it pretty clear that they're Tory voters, just from the things they say.

I've had comments from people telling me to grow up because I still vote Labour and should, at my age (73) be voting Tory.

In addition, I have to add, I’m not as politically motivated as many of you on here, therefore I’m not always watching and reading about politics, but having said that, I do take an interest, and have seen Keit Starmer at various times speaking about the current situation. I believe criticism of him at this early stage in the middle of a pandemic to be unfair. I think we’ll see much more of him through the winter when Parliament resits.

Well I’ve seen Keir Starmer on the televised news speaking about the A level situation. It wasn’t yesterday, we had the children yesterday for childcare, so news watching was off the agenda, but at a guess it was about three days ago. So therefore anyone claiming he hasn’t spoken out is wrong!

Returning to the OP, I sincerely hope that the Democrats in the US are not as hopelessly divided as the Labour Party supporters on GN.

We all have far too much to lose.

trisher

Really biba70 you do seem to have problems with people who ask questions or criticise Starmer.

Yes no one must criticise the "Dear Leader"

As has been stated in this thread it was a pity that many who state "shut up" and such to others in regard to Starmer criticism did not carry out the same while Corbyn was Labour Party leader. ?

I suppose it does depend on the type of leadership people like, I quite like subtlety and allowing the Johnson and the Cummings scenario to play itself out, I thought that was quite effective.

Really biba70 you do seem to have problems with people who ask questions or criticise Starmer.

biba70

oh, go back to bed Grandad - honestly.

No, not back to bed, off to the office. We worked until around 8:30pm last night and I said I would be back at around 10:30am today.

Judging by all the grumpiness on this forum this morning I feel that many should find other things to do for a number of hours, might brighten their mood.

Still should be a shorter lighter day for me today, so see you later. ??

oh, go back to bed Grandad - honestly.

Oh, Starmer actually decided to get out of bed yesterday, did he, and speak out on the A-Level situation five days after it all kicked off.

It was the same with the Cummins Crisis, Starmer Showed up four days after the situation broke on the news channels and social media to make "a statement"

I always thought that the leader of the opposition was supposed to lead the criticism of the government not bring up the rear. ???

Writing in the Mirror:

www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/keir-starmer-the-tories-handling-22536751

Biba70 on 18.08.20 at 13.07 posts comments about Starmer from a Labour councillor in Liverpool. The comments are abusive, inflammatory and use language many would find offensive. She makes similar accusations and demands of Starmer as we've seen posted by some here. Anyone who uses facebook can see the same kind of disparity of views reflected on the pro and anti Starmer sights. The pro sites are full of arguments about the need for a Labour government. The pro Corbyn/Momentum groups are full of anger an vitriol towards the current leader of the LP

We have a dreadful government. We all acknowledge we are in dangerous times because of the impact of this virus. Mistakes will be made and I suspect most people accept that but the level of mismanagement is becoming a national embarrassment. After ten years of austerity, our public services (social care, criminal justice, education, health) are devastated at a time when we need them to be functioning well. The suggestion that Starmer is invisible on these key issues is not accurate. Read what he says, google his speeches and I feel confident he'd be a much better PM than the one we have.

What on earth has dividing people up into white and blue collar jobs got to do with anything? Old definitions and distinctions don't exist any more.

Governing a country is about far more than pigeon holing people by the job they do (or don't).

I suspect Starmer is intelligent and savvy enough to have looked at a map of target constituencies and be aware of the task he faces.

The big unknown is Brexit and how the economy and people react, parallel to the extent to which the Conservatives stick to their levelling up promises.

My huge concern is what's happening in the NHS particularly with GPs and the judiciary and civil service, changes to which will affect democracy, in addition to providing new support and training for the newly unemployed.

To the above persons retail and hospitality are most definitely white collar jobs.
And they are probably earning half or a third as much as a heavy goods vehicle driver with a forty ton vehicle to unload or load

Galaxy

I dont consider retail and hospitality white collar jobs - is that what you meant?

They are if you are a picker in a distribution centre, a vehicle tecnition in a commercial Vehicle Garage, part of a Loading bank staff or Heavy goods vehicle driver with a forty ton vehicle to unload or load or a home delivery driver who is out in all winds and weathers.

To the above persons retail and hospitality are most definitely white collar jobs.

I dont consider retail and hospitality white collar jobs - is that what you meant?

We now live in unprecedented times with Britain and many other countries facing the largest recession, if not depression, since the 1930s. However, the unemployment the above is bringing about is not hitting lower paid blue collar manual workers the hardest, as white collar, managerial and supervisory jobs are being hit even more than the foregoing blue collar workers.

The Covid crisis has obviously changed dramatically the way people lead there lives. In that we use the high street, entertainment and hospitality industries far less at present, instead preferring to shop online and order a takeaway rather than going to the pub.

As people once more return to their places of work the above industries will pick-up, but as long as coronavirus is a threat those industries will never return to what they were.

Therefore manual blue collar employment in distribution centres and the transport industry will increase by percentage to other industries along with support services to distribution and road transport. To counter that white collar employment in retail, entertainment and the hospitality industries will continue to decline.

How all the above will impact on voter intentions into the future both in regard to traditional party loyalties and floating can at this point in time be only guessed at.

However, one thing we have all learned by way of this crisis would be who is essential in terms of employment in our society as opposed to those who can be easily be done without.

Starmer should consider the above carefully in considering the policy positioning of the Parliamentary Labour party and the factional allegiances within his party for that could be crucial to him and the PLP in the not too distant future.

POGS

' Some people think that by voting Conservative they somehow become one of the better off by association'.
-

How does that work then?

If you vote Tory you wear a badge and things will fall in your lap, go the front of the queue?

Who knows how you vote?

That's why my mother voted Conservative all her life. She was a proud woman, who would have benefited hugely from state help and a Labour government. And yes, she did think that "being a Conservative" somehow made her superior to others. She had friends who thought the same way too.

' Some people think that by voting Conservative they somehow become one of the better off by association'.
-

How does that work then?

If you vote Tory you wear a badge and things will fall in your lap, go the front of the queue?

Who knows how you vote?