George Floyd Protests in Hyde Park

trisher I know Churchill's history, on the other hand I am pleased that he did not cave into Cabinet Members who were all for appeasement with Hitler, Europe would be far more intolerant and racist if that had happened don't you think?

avalon we failed to respect property though didn’t we?

trisher my grandparents had nothing good to say about him.

I was taught about the slave trade in school and how totally inhumane the whole sordid trade was, the dreadful conditions in which black people were exported like goods across the sea. How could anyone not read Harriet Beecher Stowe’s “Uncle Tom’s Cabin” and not realise how terrible slavery was? So we were taught.
We were also taught to respect property, law and order, and other people’s opinions. I am happy for people to have different opinions to my own but not when they act in a lawless manner to inflict theirs on me. I am disgusted and appalled by what has been happening.

Totally agree Callistemon

If grandad has missed the point, what IS the point, whitewave?

The real history of Churchill was well known to those alive in WW2and after. It has been glossed over since his death, but paddyanne is quite right. The idea that he was some sort of hero to the working class is simply propaganda. The working class hated him. His colonial record was then well known. You can read the details here www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/not-his-finest-hour-the-dark-side-of-winston-churchill-2118317.html
But if you don't want to, look up the concentration camps the British used in South Africa against the Boers and how many thousands died there. The ability of the British to ignore history that doesn't fit the required agenda, that we are a great country with a sparkling past, is incredible.

I think it would be better to retrieve the statue from the docks. We cannot erase history and disregard it, however, I also think that a statue should be erected of Dr Paul Stephenson OBE to put historical events in some context. His actions helped bring about the first anti-discrimination laws in the UK. I'm not sure if statues ae usually erected of living people?

The difference in attitudes between the 1800s, the 1960s and now is remarkable even though there is still a very long way to go.

We need to know our history, children need to be taught it.
Eradicating it, disregarding it, means we may never progress.

WWMK2 The UK is not the USA, we are a tolerant country a country of equal opportunities (which as Grandad1943 has pointed out is enshrined in our laws).

grandad your post seems to suggest that you have entirely missed the point.

Whitewavemark2 Quote [ You simply can’t behave as we do and expect no reaction. ]End Quote.

Whitewavemark2, the Equality Act 2010 brought forward to Britain some of the strongest legislation in regard to racism and equal rights than almost any other country worldwide.

The problem now is that many who are subject to racism, sexism, religious hatred etc do not take advantage of the power that legislation gives them to bring action against those that carry out such activities.

Even on this forum when advised of their rights under the above act, we see forum members not taking and acting on that advise.

The above would for many be a far better activity than attending questionable demonstrations which this government will take no notice of, as the appropriate legislation to deal with those grievances is already in existence in the United Kingdom.

So you would have rather we had been over run by Hitler and the Nazi's Paddyann? I think you'll find that they were, and would have been marginal!y (!!) worse than Churchill!!! Can you give specific details of these tens of thousands?!! I thought that you regarded the Queen as the vilest human being that had ever lived?!!!

Ellen, the people smuggling people into the country are usually from the country they are smuggling from. Thats ok is it. No one has to come to pick fruit or smuggle into the country if they don’t want to, should we just send every one that comes in back? No they want to be here! I hope the people found guilty of violence are dealt with strongly, if they are well enough to demonstrate they should be doing work, voluntary if not paid, certainly not drawing money from the country they live in. Why come here to change a country, would you marry a man to mould him into someone different,? We are not fascist or racist here, it’s an insult saying it is. Racism works both ways for some people, certainly not a reflection of a whole country.

davidh education, lets start with that.

For those on GN not familiar with black history I can recommend a lot of reading material.

WW2
Yesterday I asked you how you would improve the prospects of the black community you did not answer that question
I would be very interested to know

'educated and'...

Churchill was not a hero ,he was without doubt one of the biggest racists the UK has has spawned.Look at his record and then tell me what a "great man " he was.Even in his greatest hour during WW11 he caused the deaths of tens of thousands through his sheer incompetence...a bit like Bojo in his approach and outlook .In Ireland and Wales and large areas of Scotland people would spit when his name was uttered and people still remember what a vile "human" he was ,
Someone mentioned student nurses not being paid..that may be the case in England in Scotland they are being paid at grade 4 rates which is just over £24000 a year

Would that were all as wise, educate an superior as you WW2! Let's just say then that the colour of somebody's skin is not not an issue ! which is clearly what the poster meant! Does that sound better? Probably not!!!

Merlot gran
. I have that too!! I discovered a few years ago that my son also has it. Mine isn’t severe but it’s there

We aren’t learning from history gg13 we are constantly repeating it.

That is what no one seems to be understanding.

You simply can’t behave as we do and expect no reaction.

They are human beings with anger in their souls, cultivated for hundreds of years by us.

WWMK2 I can't breathe to me means I am usually in the back of an ambulance being blue lighted to hospital, I have been an asthmatic all my life.

I totally understand that the murder of George Floyd is a flame that has lit the fire for worldwide protests, I am not naive as you suggest.

I am concerned that these protesters are going to be killing their loved ones with Covid-19.

We cannot rewrite history, we can only learn from it and endeavour not to repeat the same mistakes.

When the world is gripped by a deadly pandemic it is not the time for mass protests.

I should have referenced Ben Okri in my post, apologies

One subtle form of racism we see on GN is the phrase

I don’t notice a persons colour

When someone says that they are colour blind to a persons skin colour they are being naive . They are in sweet denial.

History is not colour blind . Examine the history of slavery and of colonialism and of genocide.

Education is not colour blind. Otherwise the objective facts of what a people have done to a people would be as much part of the curriculum as the death of Socrates, the plays of Shakespeare and basic matches.

Culture is not Colour blind. Otherwise the history of art would include the rock sculpture of Zimbabwe, the radical interventions of David Hammond, and the paintings of Ben Enwonwu (and dare I suggest the poems of Ben Okri)

This sort of vandalism is not going to help their cause at all. In fact, it is more likely to increase anti-black feeling.
These riots (they can no longer be called protests) have now spread to European cities. How can Europe be accused of being racist when it has done so much to help migrants and refugees?
Can no-one see the irony of a black mayor of an English city joining forces with those complaining about racism?

Ok, whitewave - what are these "deadly and subtle" forms of racism? Could you cite a couple of examples please? Should be dead easy as they're so widespread....