Diane Abbott quits the shadow cabinet.

GagaJo Tue 25-Feb-20 17:17:59

'No, actually. Trisher ISN'T wrong.

The reason so many on here can't acknowledge DA's achievements is very simple. Racism.

Just because another racist agrees with you, doesn't make you right'
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You are doing it AGAIN!

Calling me a ' RACIST'

Not only do you twist what posters scribe you do not soak in what anybody who does not agree with you is saying.

You are throwing the word ' RACIST' around like bloody confetti.

Diane Abbott and Priti Patel: They're both black/brown. Both MPs. Both female. Both born into immigrant families; one from Jamaica and one from Uganda. Both from the same working class background. Both university educated. One is a Labour MP, the other is a Tory MP. Both have been criticised for both professional and personal mistakes in the press, by the public and on this forum.

It's evidently racist to subject the Labour Party woman to further criticism but it's not racist to criticise the other woman, indeed, anyone who tries to highlight the disparity, will be told that there haven't been any disparaging remarks made about PP or that posters have spent a lot of time searching for the evidence. Demands are made as to why the achievements of DA cannot be recognised, but no mention of the achievements of PP is acknowledged. Why is that?

And then we get The reason so many on here can't acknowledge DA's achievements is very simple. Racism.

I would counter that with there is selective racism on here. If you don't happen to like the politics of the woman who is being criticised; that's fine, criticise her as much as you like. But not if the woman is from the political party that you support; that's definitely racism.

What astounding hypocrisy from those of you who flatter yourself that you're so terribly socially aware and politically woke. You're not. You're as blinkered and blind as those you shout down.

Oh do leave that hackneyed word alone. 'Woke' is so 'boomer'.

Why is race referred to as a card game? I don't understand that.

No.

Chewbacca
Reading many of the threads lately, you are absolutely spot on.

GaGaJo
No, put quite simply, you are wrong.

All the criticism of Diane on GN is political and none of it is racist.

Although I acknowledge that bringing her difficult private life about her son into it is a step too far. But the private lives of many politicians of all parties, all races, colours and creeds has been very thoroughly discussed on GN too.

I suppose maybe DA was around earlier and therefore was exposed to more unpleasant stuff. PP benefits from ( I hope) a more inclusive and fair minded society possibly?

Perhaps forum members interested in political discussion in regard to the Labour party would once again get on better if all returned to the "Sensible Discussion on the Labour Leadership Hopefuls MK2".

That thread at least remained reasonably respectful and very respectful at the start.

Voting has now been in progress for the last two days with some very interesting comments being made. ?

trisher

'Although some of her political opinions disgust me I applaud Nancy Astor for being the first woman to take her seat in the H of C (not the first elected that was Constance Markievitz) The only possible reason I could see for anyone not recognising DAs achievements is racism although if someone can give me another reason I will consider it. '
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' Although some of her political opinions disgust me I applaud Nancy Astor for being the first woman to take her seat in the H of C '

Has anybody disagreed with the fact Dianne Abbott was the first black woman to take her seat in the H of C ? Nancy Astor and Dianne Abbott will both be seen through the prism of 'being the first ' for their roles in Parliament, that is a fact. Whilst you feel free to say of Nancy Astor ' her political opinions disgust me ' you have the nerve to tell others they must do as you do and lionise Daianne Abbott. Do you not see your hypocrisy?

Actually I would never say or use terms such as ' disgusts me' when talking of Dianne Abbott or anybody else in politics.
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'The only possible reason I could see for anyone not recognising DAs achievements is racism'

Utter tripe.

If you said you could see no possible reason to recognise the achievements of let's say Sajid Javid, Priti Patel, Rishi Sunak, Suella Braverman in the Tory cabinet I don't think anybody would say that is because you are racist. I would hope it wouldn't cross their minds but you and a handful of others think you are so right in making offensive, wild judgements of others you do not see how offensive you are, nor would you care.
----

' if someone can give me another reason I will consider it. '

No you would not consider it because you have been given reasons why but you refuse to listen!

And here's a very recent example of post made today about one of the women MPs.

There is a thread about usernames and I can't help noting that there is often a sharp contrast between the prettiness of a name (like Priti Patel) and the nastiness of the views.

So her ethnic origin name is held up for parody and that's not racist?

True, POGS
If someone said that Diane Abbott's hypprpcrisy disgusts them, the race card would be immediately brought into play. There are groans when the school choice is brought up.

However, a conviction politician should never make choices for their families that they would deny to others, whatever the reason and whatever the political party.

I admire Jeremy Corbyn for his stance although I do not agree with him.

Sp, sorry.

Making excuses for her reasons for sending her son to a private school is hypocrisy. She is against these schools but she said she needed to protect her son as a black boy from the influences and difficulties he would face. How can anyone dispute such double standards? OK for her but she would deny any other parent the choice to protect their own sons?

As for Trisher resorting to her usual fallback position of Labelling others racists because they aren’t queuing up to applaud DA’s achievements. I can’t see any of the pack applauding Priti Patel’s considerable accomplishments.

I know it's a crazy thought but sometimes people in politics espose a view and then do something different. Who ever would have thought of such a thing?

It isn't just the making excuses tickingbird; it's the double standards of what is robustly condemned as being outright racism for DA, whilst failing to see that they're making exactly the same denigrating remarks about PP. And they massage each other's egos with how fair minded and and socially woke they are.

'Woke'. Ok boomer.

Did it especially for you! I know you like it!

Still no sign of acknowledgement just more justifying rhetoric. As for Nancy Astor's views you do realise don't you POGS that she was anti-semitic. Still possibly this won't disgust you.
^Dr David Feldman of the Pears Institute for the Study of Anti-Semitism has related that whilst attending a dinner at the Savoy Hotel in 1934 Astor had asked the League of Nations’ high commissioner for refugees whether he believed "that there must be something in the Jews themselves that had brought
them persecution throughout the ages". Although Dr David Feldman acknowledged this was “not an unusual view” and explained it “was a conventional idea in the UK at the time”.^
Astor was critical of the Nazis for devaluing the position of women and opposed the idea of another war. Several of her friends and associates, especially the Marquess of Lothian, became involved in the policy of the appeasement of Nazi Germany; this group became known as the Cliveden set The term was first used in The Week, a newspaper run by the British Communist Claud Cockburn. The Cliveden set was a coterie of aristocrats described by one journalist as having subscribed to their own form of fascism. Its members were depicted by war agitators as the prime movers for peace. Astor believed that Nazism would solve the problems associated with Communism and the Jews.
As for Priti Patel why do you have to keep bringing her into a thread about Diane Abbott? Because she isn't white? But there are a number of women in Parliament now who are not white. Although interestingly enough the next 2 ethnic women were not elected until 1997 10 years after DA and both have since left politics. The next woman MP of any other ethnic origin isn't there until 2005. Which makes you realise how the racist abuse MPs have suffered must have damaged women and how strong DA has been to endure.
And if people are criticising Priti Patel for her ethnic origins it's wrong but if they are criticising her immigration policies or her very dodgy connections well actually it's entirely legitimate.

My criticism of Diane Abbott is choosing private education for
her son but wants to stop other parents the same choice.

And she was an IRA supporter

sometimes people in politics espouse a view and then do something different
Greymar that is my point exactly.

We have the freedom to criticise any that do so too, without fear or favour and without it being considered to be racist.

And if people are criticising Priti Patel for her ethnic origins it's wrong but if they are criticising her immigration policies or her very dodgy connections well actually it's entirely legitimate

Ditto Diane Abbott's hypocrisy, innumeracy and failure to address accusations of institutional antisemitism.

The rhetorical justifications are going both ways it seems.

trisher exactly (your last paragraph).

trisher

'And if people are criticising Priti Patel for her ethnic origins it's wrong but if they are criticising her immigration policies or her very dodgy connections well actually it's entirely legitimate.'
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Of course it is!

The exact same principle applies to criticising Dianne Abbott. It would be ' totally ' wrong to criticise Dianne Abbott for her ethnic origins. It is not wrong to criticise her policies, her connections etc. It is entirely legitimate.

Neither would be racist either but you insist it is.

Actually Trisher it was your pal Suziewoozie that brought PP into this thread.
Meanwhile, back with the actual Home Secretary....

But in criticising some acknowledgement of her acheivements should be recognised. Does it not bother any of you that there are no women black or Asian MPs who have served as long as she has? That the next 2 took another 10 years and didn't last? Does that not show that we are still a racist misogynist society? And do you never ever worry that your views are influenced by the racism that surrounds you? And having a black or Asian friend doesn't stop you being racist. I have Conservative friends but I'm not a Conservatiive supporter.
And I will say Priti Patel has done well to be made Home Secretary but if I were her I would always be wondering if my appointment was in some way the Conservatives showing Labour "Anything you can do" and if DA going will mean she gets shuffled out?