Read the 'inside' story of today's reshuffle.

In that case nobody ever votes rationally. None of us know what our points of unreason are, but we are all convinced that we have thought through our voting decisions.

I may think that other people's voting decisions are wrong, but I would never suggest they thought it through less throughly than I had.

I am % sure that there are voters who think it through less thoroughly than you Monica - like the taxi driver who told us he didn't know anything about the EU but voted leave because the foreigners didn't vote for us in the Eurovision Song contest

100% sure

Your stance is really praiseworthy 'M0nica' but seriously, have you looked at the tabloids and the kinds of thinking that is behind the articles they publish. Presumably those wouldn't be published otherwise.

And seeing that you read the Guardian, today's article about the Coronavirus which is headed 'False rumours on Coronavirus could cost lives'. This article contains the riveting information that 40% of people in the UK believe at least one conspiracy theory and 14% of parents admit to sending their children to school with contagious infections, flouting school rules. Not a lot of considered thinking going on then. www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/14/coronavirus-false-rumours-cost-lives-researchers?

That's rather an insulting post, anniezzz09

You're being very disparaging indeed

And comments like yours are why people have been leaving the left.

Elitist comments antagonise

MOnica
I'm surprised that your surprised at MaizieDs opinion of voters intelligence ( only those who voted to leave, obviously ?)

Some people deserve to be disparaged.

MOnica Class loyalty is so last century! It's all about values loyalty now.

Quite amusing reading posts on here from those who consider themselves to be "the intellectual elite". Just reading their posts, it becomes quite clear that they are in fact just socialist snobs. Yes, some people do deserve to be disparaged.

It isn't elitist in the least, 'oopsaminty', I come from a working class background but benefitted from a grammar school. My point is that education in the UK now leaves a lot to be desired and the tabloids are pure poison and set to uninform as supposed to inform.

As to the Labour Party, its list its way and hasn't supported the so-called working man or woman for a long time. Many would dispute that something called the working class still exists anyway, we're all middle class now!

Why is it amusing?

I have never considered myself a socialist.

Don't forget that 50% of the population are, by definition, less intelligent than average.

No Opal just thinkers. What's your thought through opinion then? Give us an example of an enlightened working person of the 21st century.

The traditional working class, working long hours in unsafe factories, fighting against the injustices of inhumane factory owners, with no chance of owning property, who were one of the main reasons the Labour Party came into existence, have long ceased to exist as a significant force. Their values are just as likely to be conservative (with a small "c") as anybody else's.

That's a hot potato growstuff but if the debate is whether people vote by thinking or through emotional allegiance then, it is relevant. Why do politicians, after all, campaign in headline terms, sound memes I believe they're called. They appeal to the emotions. And emotions appear in all of us but may hold more sway in those less able to rationalise.

I was commenting on your first post growstuff not the second but I do agree with both.

There's a video somewhere of a speech Dominic Cummings made after the referendum. As people know, he was the mastermind behind the Leave campaign. He stated clearly the Leave vote began to win when they shifted tactics from rational arguments to visceral, emotional appeals.

annizzz I'm fed up with trying to be polite.

Maisie I wasn’t apologising.

Actually I think this subject does need airing, especially when it has led us down a path, for the next 4-5 years, that may well prove disasterous for Workington Man and is wife.

his

@growstuff

Your post of 12.22.

I agree that the workers you describe are no longer a significant force but I think they have been replaced, or added to, by other exploited workers who equally need the Labour Party to stand up for them. 'Fulfilment Centre' workers, people on zero hours contracts, couriers whose every move is timed and tracked, carers delivering care to people in their own homes etc; I think the list could be quite long.

It bothers me not in the slightest to be accused of intellectual snobbery, especially by people who have never been able to give us any rational and fact based reason for voting to leave the EU.

MaizieD, I agree with your paragraph about exploited workers, just doubtful that the Labour Party can any longer be relied upon to support such people. We need a new political party to confront Conservative policies or a Labour leader with guts.

Why don't you think that the LP could support such people, anniezzz09?

I also agree that many workers are still exploited. However, they don't tend to be unionised and don't live in close-knit communities with shared values any more. A sense of solidarity no longer exists (if it ever did).

I agree Yehbutnobut. It seems to have become the new "politically correct" not to talk about it.