Meat or no Meat - wow

adding a lot of local seasonal veg to meat dishes like stews or bolognese, doubling or trebling the quantity, is not expensive. Neither is soaking overnight lentils or any kind of beans to add to- or using a tin even- making it go even further. Eating less but local, better raised meat- is totally compensated with above. Or serving lots of potatoes and veg + yorshire puds (home made is so so cheap) to roasts.

Same with seasonal and local veg- seasonal is always the key to cheap.

This was back in the seventies. It was only that one shop that sold it.

New Zealand cheddar was a popular cheese back then.

I'm an almost vegan and I've been vegetarian for over fifty years. Meat is definitely optional!

Dinosaurs were not such an "in thing" when we were young Gonegirl
Most of my limited knowledge comes from DGS - his is extensive.

I didn't notice many cows or beef cattle in NZ, in fact we remarked on the lack of them.

There is also the cost of ethical eating to consider.

Years ago, before we joined the EU, I used to buy roasting beef from New Zealand from a local butcher. Wonder if that will come back after Brexit. Or will we be getting it from the US.

Vegans, in particular and vegetarians probably do give more thought to the provenance of their food than meat eaters, but that is because they are a self selected group who have ethical concerns about how they eat. But there is also a self-selected group of meat eaters, who buy organic meat and have ethical concerns who have made similar decisions.

Self-selected groups for any reason generally have high ethical stabdards in the field they self select for.

The demand for cheap beef comes from the UK as well. The majority of the population have no interest in where their chicken and beef come from. Why otherwise are so many people prepared to buy from cheap fast food outlets selling beef and/or chicken - and do not start me on fish farming and what that does to the fish and the wider ecology.

I remember back in the day seeing a programme in which there was outrage that meat production was under threat from soya beans! I was still quite little and didn't know what soya was back then...

How the tables have turned...

I'm guessing that the demand for cheap beef, in particular, is coming from developing countries where fast food is becoming the norm. Ie places like China and India.

Not sure they knew about dinosaurs when I was in primary school Callistemon.

A lot of vegans do avoid soy, palm oil etc which is unethically produced. I would imagine more vegans have an interest in the provenance of what they are eating than many meat eaters who buy the stuff in plastic trays in the supermarket or feed their kids cheap burgers or chicken nuggets. So no please don’t just bash all vegans with the same hammer. Not all
Imported food is bought by vegans btw.

Eat less of it and buy it from local sources. It might cost more, but it would be reared to good standards and not travelled far

I am concerned about about the ethical issues around meat consumption. That is why over the last 20 years I have moved first to eating only meat organically sourced from local organic farms to now buying my meat from Pasture Farm registered farms, where the meat is fed on grass and hay from the farm I am buying from, with the animals not being fed soya or grains. It is possible to buy high welfare, low input meat.

Veganism is a personal choice and I accept and respect those who choose it, but just as I would not press them to eat animal protein, I object to them taking on a high moral tone and trying to blackmail me into being vegan.

Carnivores generally eat herbivores but I don't think that a hungry lion would be too fussy if you strayed into his path.

Carnivores, herbivores and omnivores Gonegirl

Did you learn nothing at primary school?

I could go into it in depth but not tonight!
Some dinosaurs were herbivores, some carnivores and one or two were omnivores.

Ok. I'll shut up now. I'm not taking this too seriously.

I've thought of another one. Rabbits.

No. I was talking about humans not eating meat when I said all animals eat meat. I forgot about the herbivores.

Humans are not lions and suchlike, though, are they?

I was thinking more about lions and suchlike.

And sheep and horses.

Oh, cows are aren't they!

Ok. I don't know enough about animals to know what they eat.

Which animals are herbivores then?

Yes. Vegetarian could be ok if you knew what you were doing. Not vegan though.

I've never seen a herbivore eating meat voluntarily!
Some unethical farmers did feed suspect meat based products to their animals.

Of course, pigs will eat anything.
Enough said about that.

Our friend's children seem very healthy on a vegetarian diet and, as she is extremely knowledgeable about the nutritional values of food, she chooses for them not to join her in becoming vegan.
They are all growing teens.