young people increasingly say 'NO children'

I adore my two granddaughters but am very fearful for their future. Climate change and the continuation of capitalism are both things that need to be stopped or at least greatly reduced. And oil is set to run out in around 20 years, so unless we invest more than we do in renewable energy there are going to be severe problems around the world. It scares me how long there have been humans and how it is only in the last 200 years we have created the technology to destroy the world, potentially. I definitely regret having children simply because I am so worried.

I had children because I wanted them - but stuck to two. As it happened, neither of my sisters had children, so our numbers are falling very satisfactorily.

I was idly glancing through the death notices in our local paper yesterday and noticed how few grand children many of the deceased had.

Sometime ago there was another thread where global population was discussed. I did a bit of research and discovered that of roughly 200 countries in the world nearly half had birth rates close to replacement level only, or below. In fact as far as population and land area was concerned, most of the world and its population live in countries where population is not growing by natural increase. Coloured maps showed that the only geographical area where population is still growing rapidly is in Africa.

Some experts are already questioning the United Nations forecasts for peak population and saying it may well be lower than they forecast.

I do not think it is useful to debate whether to have children or not - it is an atavistic urge, an instinct. Some have it, some do not. There is never and never has been a good time to have a child, if you sit down and do the financial calculation.

I am aware of the future problems that are brewing for the planet; but nature will out when it comes to reproduction. It is the purpose and aim of all species; indeed some animals die after reproducing, having completed their allotted task.

All slightly bonkers really, but we have to accept nature as it is.

But Luckygirl we should have some impulse control over our instincts surely.

Yes I had children, but my instincts wanted more. I never stopped being broody (still am despite peri menopause!) But my HEAD knows it would be a terrible idea so I stopped at a low number

Neither of our DDs wanted children, DD1's DH wasn't sure but at 39 she had DGD, they won't have any more.

DD2 has never wanted children and at 37 she is even more determined she doesn't want children.

I just feel so grateful to have one grandchild and bless her she is the only grandchild to her other GP and a step GP.

As for over population ? Not an easy issue to resolve. But each to there own I guess.

We married in 1971, determined not to have children because of the horrors of WW2 and the ongoing Cold War as well as 'Silent Spring' etc. By 1974 our DD had arrived, followed 2 years later by her brother. Now we have 3 grandchildren. They are all wonderful, caring people and deep thinkers. My sister, her husband and I have given our working lives to the health and care sector, in my case despite the stigma and scapegoating of my profession only survivable at times because of DH's support. We have famous artists on DH's side too! I've decided we need more people like us! There, I've said it.

The reason I asked the question, is that lately I have met so many young people single and couples- who have told me that they could not possibly bring children into this messy, dangerous world.

Lucky ''There is never and never has been a good time to have a child, if you sit down and do the financial calculation.''

I don't think their reaction is about financial calculation, but about the state of the world, politics, the environment, etc. Certainly for the ones I've talked to.

When DD1 was announced, she was definitely not expected. I had just got over 2+ years of severe injury, 7.5 months in hospital and many months to recovery and walking almost normally, and living abroad with no support whatsoever. OH was working crazy hours, 140+ per week - and we were totally skint. We lived on homemade beanbags, a home made bed, and all we got for baby was second-hand or scrap. But the post war world was bright, we knew OH would earn a better living eventually, we knew I'd go back to study and a decent job... eventually (waited till DD2 went to school)- and we felt optimistic about the future. She was a surprise, but the best surprise ever ...

Nicely said Applegran.

seadragon, and a very good point you are making too. It seems those who are not wanting to bring children into this dangerous and unstable world- are those who are intelligent, caring, thinkers- and who have so much to give. So I agree, in many ways.

We live in a messy world where unintelligent people can become parents. Good job most of them are loved.

Utopia doesn’t exist. We muddle through this world as best we can.

‘Three things in human life are important: the first is to be kind; the second is to be kind; and the third is to be kind.” – Henry James

My eldest son has always been adamant he doesn’t want to marry or have children. He has a long term partner and they have just announced that they are buying a house together and getting a dog (something else son has never wanted) I relayed this information to my husband and said I thought the acquisition of the dog was son’s gesture to GF for him not being prepared to marry or have children. He looked aghast. ‘No one ever told me there was a choice’ he wailed.

Oh for goodness sake..... people were having babies while bombs fell all around them..... can’t get much worse than that can it! If you don’t want ‘to procreate’ then dont. But dont keep blaming the state of the world !! Just say I’ve got this wonderful selfish life and I don’t want it to end! Fair enough! Lucky these peoples’ parents didn’t interfere with their children’s birth....wouldn’t be able to feel so smug ...or feel anything really! Cos they wouldn’t be here taking up space!

One of my sons and his wife are not going to have children. They are both career minded people and i feel they have made the right decision. They have just moved into a luxury 4 bed house and are off to Cape Verdi a bit later this month followed by a trip to Lapland just before Christmas. They lead a wonderful life and i am happy and proud of them both. They have friends who feel the same, so enjoy meals out, festivals, trips to London to see shows etc and they always have wonderful holidays each year. My DIL's mother lives in spain and they fly over several times a year to see her for a long weekend. Hopefully as they get older they and their friends will all support each other in times of need.

saggi, I wonder what made you blow up in this outburst???

Each to their own, surely. This is just a dicussion.

I agree with several posters on here including grandtante and applegran and saggi
Younger people saying they can’t bring children into the world right now blah blah is just the sort of thing that some younger people say.It sounds idealistic and ‘woke’.
It’s sometimes a cover for not wanting children too.
In short, it’s nothing to worry about, there are enough people who do want babies in the world.

I internally misread this thread title and thought to myself: I wish a few more people would say no to children when they are being brattish.

However, I then realised my mistake and a SHRUG moment occurred. Anyone who doesn't feel the urge to pass on their genes isn't properly alive in the way of most animals. We human beings are definitely weird.

Tickledpink

Jaylucy, my DS and I sat down to do our sums in 1985 to work out if we could afford kids! It didn’t take much working out and it’s a pity more people don’t do it

Wow - I wouldn’t have 4 kids, 2hoyses and 2cars if we’d gone by our sums - sometimes you just have to go for it and work hard to make it work.
We’re financially in a very good position now but we weren’t when we started a family, things change, what an awful reason NOT to have children.

It seems those who are not wanting to bring children into this dangerous and unstable world- are those who are intelligent, caring, thinkers- and who have so much to give

What a load of BS.

As I posted earlier, my son has never wanted children. For him the main reason is his health, he had his first stroke at the age of 24.
He's also developed another condition which means despite a cocktail of drugs, he suffers permanent, chronic pain. He'll undergo surgery soon which may help but even that will require more operations throughout his life.
So for some..it's not selfishness, or going against instinct.

I think many of you who are criticizing those who don't want children have got it wrong. Like me, the younger generation maybe just don't have that maternal/paternal instinct. Also, it is possible, but of course most of you won't agree, that you children grew up to realise that family life isn't everything.

Some people have talked about the wonderful life that their children have without children of their own. IMO generally the decision is not one made because they want more money or freedom. Money and freedom are a by product of that decision and not the reason.

There has to be a balance. China’s one-child policy had unforeseen and unintended consequences.
Even after the one-child policy was rescinded, China’s birth and fertility rates remained low, leaving the country with a population that was aging too rapidly as well as a shrinking workforce
From www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.britannica.com/amp/story/the-effects-of-chinas-one-child-policy

Of course this was a policy that was brutally enforced, and we don’t know what the long-term effects of voluntary childlessness are.

It’s well documented that the best way of population control is the education of girls and good healthcare.

I read a book called ‘The Baby Trap’ in 1973, and that, combined with ‘The Female Eunuch’ almost put me off having a family of my own.
Fortunately I then read Bertrand Russell and ‘The Conquest of Happiness’ in which he said that the single most important source of happiness in his life had been his children.

Baggsto your first paragraph.
Totally agree with your second.

Tiger tooth ''It seems those who are not wanting to bring children into this dangerous and unstable world- are those who are intelligent, caring, thinkers- and who have so much to give

What a load of BS.''

why the need for this? No-one here is advocatin anything, or saying having or not having is right or wrong. But yes, anecdotal evidence here, but quite consistent- with the young people who have discussed this with me. Who are you to say it is BS? A pity.

As Notanan2 says ''But Luckygirl we should have some impulse control over our instincts surely.''

weird perhaps, but isn't this what differentiates us from animals- we have the ability to think, analyse, and make conscious decision beyond our basic instincts.

jura2 When I was having children back in the early 1970s, there were people refusing to have children because of the fear of a nuclear holocaust. There are always groups or individuals not having children because of the possibility of some disastrous future.

Unfortunately the disaster that happens is never the one we expect. Back in the 1960s/70s could Yugoslavians have forseen the chaos, murder and genocide that would afflict their country in the 1980s, back in the 1990s could Syrians foresee the disaster and death that would afflict their country now?

The cold war came to an end and I believe that we will see humankind adjust to climate change. Although the way we finally do it will not be something we can foresee now.

The next disaster will be as much unforeseen as the break up of Yugoslavia and the war in Syria.