If there is an election.....

It seems to me that the only people who want a second referendum are the losers! Do you imagine that if the 'Remainers' had won, by the same margin, we would be having all this outcry for a 'People's Vote'? I doubt it!

I've sort of lost the plot now - what with all these latest political shenanigans.

What I am sure of is that we are in this hole now because most of our elected MPs are Remainers, and have forgotten that they were elected to carry out the will of their constituents, not their own 'consciences', as they keep banging on about!

Polls are highly volatile at the moment, but this is the latest.
Conservative/BP and Labour/LD/Green are almost neck and neck (and that's not counting the SNP, Plaid or the DUP). It all depends how the votes are distributed.

I think we would, Lyndiloo. In fact, when Farage thought he was going to lose, he called for a second referendum.

Our MPs are not voted on a populist agenda. They are selected because they are supposed to have an understanding of the bigger picture.

MPs represent the interests of all their constituents, young and old, not just the ones who voted for them. They are not there to take orders from the small minority of voters who voted them in.

When you think about, aninteresting thing is that uninformed people who just rely on social media for their political insights can still reach the same conclusions as full-on boffins who know history, economics and politics well.

Brexit is an example of this, where at the top end you have highly educated people divided by their opinions - even though they have access to the same material, just as clueless people vote both ways.

ug what a sheer waste of money there must be in funding universities, and stuff like research. We could save it all and still come to the same conclusion.

Certainly never refer to learned documents, as it is clearly all unnecessary.

What do they know?

ug as someone said so recently

“You need to give your head a wobble”

I shan’t be voting for this

Independent report

Johnson is receiving substantial support from far-right figures, including former Britain 1st’s Jayda Fransen, who praised him for “purging the traitors” in his party and called on others to fall behind him.

Tommy Robinson too.
Johnson must be SO proud

I shan’t be voting for this either. This from a Tory Party member.

I hate liars

Patrick Lohlein

At the #ToryLeadershipHustings in London, I also asked Boris Johnson to rule out any electoral pact with NF and his #BrexitForeverParty because they don't share our values, which he did. I have that on video and plan to hold him to his word.

I thought these were the people trying to block our Prime Minister having an election........couldn't make it up?????

Whoosh!! WWmk2

You missed my point completely.

I wasn’t saying it’s not a great thing to be intelligent and/or well educated.

I was trying to say that even those who are so can come to different opinions compared to others who are equally clever.

Just as less intelligent people who rely on sound bites don’t all vote/think the same way either.

I thought it was an interesting point!

Who are "these people" GG13? The are just like you and me. They just think a little deeper than some appear to do. Your surprise that, although they want this government out they are not stupid enough to walk into Dominic Cummings elephant trap tells us so much.

Why those people who want a no-deal followed by years of getting the poorest deal possible and find joy in bringing us back to war-time conditions, actually see this as progress is a less answerable question.

Not an optimist are you GGmk3!! Some people (even some experts believe it or not) see Brexit as an OPPORTUNITY to grasp with both hands in the expectation that things will not only ‘be fine’ but WORTHWHILE!

Now there’s a positive thought for a Saturday morning.
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We have so many friends and family who are and have always been Tories. None of them would accept an alliance with Farage, NONE- and would be totally appalled. I imagine they will either not vote, or vote for Lib Dems.

... something they would have never ever considered in the past.

It is nothing to do with intelligence UG. Although you seem a little obsessed with it. Knowledge is the key. If you are telling me that two equally intelligent people, one who is a physicist and one who has studied EU law all his academic life do not agree then who would you be more likely go listen to?

The problem with those with very little knowledge is that they feel they must have an opinion so it the becomes about prejudice not knowledge. It's called the Dunning-Kruger effect. What these psychologists found was:

... that people with substantial, measurable deficits in their knowledge or expertise lack the ability to recognize those deficits and, therefore, despite potentially making error after error, tend to think they are performing competently when they are not

What they also found was that when people gain some knowledge then begin to understand how little they know and search for more knowledge. When everybody went on about people being "less educated" they missed the point. Before asking "the people" to make a choice we should have ensured that a much unbiased knowledge about the possible outcomes and the workings of the EU were available to as many people as possible.

Those whose lives are based on misplaced optimism are occasionally mentally ill or more often simply lack the knowledge to reach any other conclusion UG.

So I’m adding ‘obsessed’ now to my charms?
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It was merely an observation how equally clever people (whatever their background) do not vote ‘en masse’ for the same things.

The problem we had in 2016 and still have is how to provide factual unbiased information to people who have been brainwashed for years into believing lies, and actually getting them not to reject factual information in favour of parroting the slogans and mantras which have been drilled into them.

There are experts on both sides of the Brexit debate remember!

Piketty was a member of the LP's Economic Advisory Committee - appointed in September 2015 and resigned in June 2016. Most of the supposed taxation plans were included in a paper written by George Monbiot and others because the LP asked them to come up with suggestions for future taxation. They have not been adopted by the Labour Party.

The only decisions made by the LP regarding personal taxation are to be found on their manifesto:

1. No tax increases for those earning over £80,000
2. No increases in personal NI contributions
3. No increase in the rate of VAT

Urm Yes there are experts on the Brexit side such as Mark Francois, Tim Martin and Digby Jones. Extremely expert - not!

Or Dinahmo you could have mentioned Mervyn King ex BoE Governor, Lord Trimble who negotiated the GFA or Jeremy Corbyn ....
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Urmston - hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

The problem we had in 2016 and still have is how to provide factual unbiased information to people who have been brainwashed for years into believing lies, and actually getting them not to reject factual information in favour of parroting the slogans and mantras which have been drilled into them.

In a nutshell Varian.

There are experts on both sides of the Brexit debate remember

That would be fine if people listened to experts UG, but all too often they are listening to politicians who are plainly not expert.