Is this the face of fascism?

Can you imagine the sort of desperation that makes people try to cross oceans in rubber dinghies ,climb under airplane carriages, freeze to death in lorries and so on.

What have we become.

Whitewave and Iam thank you for those powerful messages .
This thread has brought us some excellent, logical principled posts...............
and then there are those from Ug.
A poster whose political views I'll never agree with but whose posts I generally find well-expressed. But now they've sadly degenerated to this level.
Pro Trump, pro racism and blindly pro USA (including Americanisms like the use of 'gotten').
A government rife with corruption, but since that corruption is less obvious and so far less bloody than that of Somalia it's acceptable!
To walk away from EU and into the grasp of Trump and co is utter madness!

mcem totally agree. The support of this vile sexist emotionally immature bully is beyond belief and anyone who thinks his behaviour is in any way acceptable in what was once a civilised society really needs to take a good look at themselves. It is worth noting that in the UK this monster would not even qualify to stand as a parish councillor due to his multiple bankruptcies.

I have always assumed that Trump senior entered the US legally. I have no idea whether the Congresswoman from Somalia was descended from legal immigrants, but she is now a legal representative of her American people in Congress. Is that not legitimate enough for Trump or Urmstongran? "Where she came from" is the US of A, as much so as the current President. He was way outside his remit or even common politeness to tell her to go back home. If that is how he treats his Congresswomen, no wonder he also has a reputation for treating fotreigners and women as he does.

Maybe Lessismore we should turn your statement around. Instead of saying what have we become, perhaps we should be thinking ‘what have they become?’ As in these countries who so oppress their own citizens?

It is beyond awful that corrupt and inhumane governments in some countries treat their fellow men so brutally.

But we cannot (nor can any country in my opinion) address the wrongs of the world by simply having an open door policy. Economic migrants are not the same as refugees.

Well mcem The huge list of example sentences in the OED suggests that gotten reigned supreme until the late 1500s, when got increasingly appeared in its place. Shakespeare and Hobbes used both. Got seems to have overtaken gotten around 1700.

I rest my case m’lud,
?

We've become a country that desperate people are using more and more desperate methods to enter. This perhaps is a reflection on how very dreadful a lot of countries are even in Europe, more than how benign we are! but even so it's not a good state of affairs and what the answer is, who knows!

Jabberwok, the answer isn’t racism and further oppression of desperate people. We in the UK, the US and much of Europe have been fortunate in recent years to be safe, well fed, warm and housed. Yes we have poverty, homelessness, mh problems but we aren’t in s war torn state in Africa ir the Middle East.
We should not resort to victim blaming, to suggesting desperate people stay in their dangerous countries and leave us alone.

Ug I am well aware of the ebb and flow of the usage of archaic language but say again that currently the
use of 'gotten' is primarily USA based. I am equally aware that it is cropping up here but have been aware of it in the context of youngsters attempting to sound 'cool'.

I like it.
?

A smiling assassin....

Re Farage.

Classic deflection tactic Ug.
Pick up on a minor aside in order to avoid the thrust of the post!

Ooh I must be cleverer than I give myself credit for! Unless of course I’m not.
?

Thank you, mcem for putting my thoughts into words!

A many-faceted personality (let's add faux-naive) and yet with such a narrow focus!
However back in the real world there's no avoiding the utter shambles created by the instigators and supporters of brexit, propped up by the abominable Trump who adds to the chaos while rubbing his greedy little hands together and preparing to groom his new lapdog Boz or Jez!

There is always a minority who see everything as them and us, sadly, and they march out the same old tropes to try and ratify their view. I believe the response to the Brexit vote, where there were only 2% over half in favour and yet politicians and people built an argument that told us all that "the people" we're now defined as that 52% has escalated those with this view to the front, to a position where some contemptuous views are now more acceptable than they have been since the 1930s.

We have seen people called unpatriotic, because leavers now see themselves as the definers of patriotism. We have seen MPs called traitors because leavers now see themselves as those who define what we must be loyal to.

I have just watched a young American women, attacked by Trump to aid his attempt to get a second term, tell all the children of that country that the country is theirs; the country belongs to all of them. Perhaps there is someone in this country who can stand up and say that the 52% are not "the people", the people are all of us no matter our colour, creed, how long our families have been here or how we voted in the referendum.

There's a good (and amusing) article in the Guardian yesterday by Richard Wolfe about Trump's immigrant family.

WWM2 Excellent post. Thank you.

GGMk3 great post, thank you. I feel overlooked, disregarded and dismissed as a 'loser' or as unpatriotic because I firmly support remaining in the EU.

I don't really understand what is happening when our country is willfully rejecting an alliance of more moderate regimes in favour of cosying up to this bully

What ridiculous biased rhetoric and scaremongering.

This approach is on the rise.

If we reject the EU, it means we become Trump's best friends. That is laughable.

When we reject the EU we will be trading GLOBALLY with countries around the world, and not making pacts with their leaders.

And if 'cosying up' to Trump is a crime, we need to be offended by Macron's cordial occasion in France.

Mistaking diplomacy (which is the course taken by those in their international dealings with others, and always has been) for being 'sucked into the USA' is a Remainer ploy.

It is becoming tiring and very predictable. We need to call out the language of Remainers and the left wing.

If you disagree with them politically you automatically become a 'fascist'.

There is always a minority who see everything as them and us, sadly, and they march out the same old tropes to try and ratify their view

Yes, just as I have mentioned above, but I wouldn't call left wingers 'a minority' GracesGranMK3

You are describing a common left wing approach.

And what about the half of the country who didn't vote leave Day6, the half that doesn't want Trump determining our future or the half that sees us as in a better position a part of the second-biggest economy rather than the fifth or sixth?

All you want is what you want. There is no attempt to compromise whatsoever.

In what way is what I am describing "left-wing" Day6? It is certainly the path of the extremist but I would say it is the path of the extremist either to the left or the right.

And it is currently to the right.