I think the Remain parties have got it wrong

Just heard there are a record number of EU citizens living and working in the U.K.!

I thought in this ‘hostile’ environment most had left!

What is the point of challenging NF and his supporters? They won't listen they are already fixed and it doesn't matter what they are told they have closed their minds

As have Remain voters I think you'll find.

LadyGracie. When Remain voters are told anything by Leavers that is worth opening their minds to they will consider it... Farage's empty invective is not worth considering.

I wonder how Farage, and others who sing the same 'democracy' song reconcile it with the democratic deficit in our own UK system? The House of Lords for instance?

GrandmaKT well put.

Witzend are you suggesting it is a coincidence that the London housing market has fallen? I wonder if there is a correlation between EU citizens unsure of their status and others just frightened to commit until they see what happens.

I agree MaizieD

JE as I recall the 'dire warnings' were for if we leave. They were right about the £ falling immediately. Yes, you may believe in NF but even if I agreed that leaving was the right thing my moral values would stop me voting for a charlatan. I would have to either vote for another party or spoil my paper. I really can't understand any intelligent moral person even countenancing voting for him. History will make them ashamed they did.

Day6 you missed the point! I am suggesting that fighting NF is a waste of time, they should be giving out positive messages instead. Of course some remain people have already made up their minds but that is completely irrelevant to my post. I'm sorry but I do find that some leavers either don't understand things or deliberately misread and misquote. It does make it harder to respect their views.
Mycat you have made my point, they 'haven't seen* because no one has pointed it out to them. We probably all know of things that have been paid for by the EU, laws which have benefited us etc but no one is shouting that from the rooftops so people don't know. NF is shouting soundbites which people are hearing and believing because they don't look below the surface.

joelsnan I don't know if you are correct or not but I prefer to see the bigger picture. I prefer the strong helping the weak, with restrictions or, to put it another way, family helping family. Lots of Poles came to the UK and worked hard and sent money home which went into their economy. Now many have gone back because their economy has grown and they have well paid work at home. Not all were manual workers, I had a senior accountant who spoke 4 languages. The result of their economy improving means we can sell more to them. Everyone wins.

LadyGracie you also have missed the point (see above). The people who have read it and understood all seem to be more thoughtful

Nonnie

But why didn’t remain do that? I think it’s too late now as project fear was so counterproductive people are entrenched.

Added to that and not exclusively Brexit related there are so many so called experts on everything on the internet and conspiracy theories people don’t know who to believe and often follow dangerous ideologies like the anti vaccine brigade

No I don't think I have missed the point, anyone who has a different point of view on Gransnet is rubbished. It's why I generally keep my thoughts to myself and read those like minded souls being ridiculed, some gn's can be quite offensive.

I would like to publicise something very positive which came about only because of our EU membership, namely the preservation of the ancient woodland of Shooters Hill; this was my first insight into the advantages of EU mambership:

"Oxleas Wood and Woodlands Farm were threatened by plans to construct a link road to a proposed east London river crossing but these were abandoned in 1993, following a long-running conservation battle that ended with victory in the European Court."

Looking at the polls and thinking about it, Farage will not achieve more than 34% of the vote. That represents 34% people voting to leave.

So 66% aren’t voting for him ergo not voting leave.

We may just as well ignore him really.

mycat that is exactly my point! If remain had done that the result might have been very different. It looks to me like they have learnt nothing!

As for experts like in any other sphere you can't take them as a whole you have to use your intelligence to determine which to believe and which to doubt. The first thing to look at is who is funding them. It really isn't very hard. I can't believe people just lump them all in together . If a doctor said something you didn't agree with you wouldn't assume all the rest were wrong. If you had a bad haircut you wouldn't blame all hairdressers

LadyG if you still haven't got the point (by reading my posts!) then perhaps I have made it in suggesting why you didn't get it? As it was my post I think I am the one who knows whether you have missed the point or not. You are not really in a position to judge are you? Did you see my response to Day6?

I’ve read your posts Nonnie you appear to disagree with a lot of other posters opinions. I haven’t missed your point I just totally disagree with you, as you do with me! End of.

LadyGracie exactly! Succinctly put.??????????

Voting for the Brexit Party for MEP’s is simply a protest vote,from those who wish to send a clear message to Parliament to get on with it, sort out the squabbles and honour the referendum result.

Perhaps at first it was a protest vote but not anymore, support for Nigel Farage and The Brexit Party is soaring, over 100,000 registered supporters paying £25 each since the Party started just over 4 weeks ago. After the EU elections they are putting forward a candidate for the Peterborough by-election.

Yes Fire but I think that once we do leave the EU, the huge amount of support for the Brexit Party will naturally ‘fall away’ although it could still do better than the Lib Dems.
Anyway, it will have achieved it’s main aim by then.

There is a lot of talk about how NF is being funded, apparently the figures don't add up and they think it is someone donating several times over to cheat the system.

If he is so popular why did so few people turn up at MT yesterday?

All The Brexit Party Rallies have and are sold out, standing room only at some of them.

No Fire you are totally wrong. There were a few people last night. Check out the photos on Twitter. When so few turned up they claimed that protesters were stopping them getting in, once again look at the photos. Facts not fantasy.

Sounds as if he is modelling himself on Trump and his insistence that the inauguration was packed with supporters:

"The new White House had spent the large part of Mr Trump's first day in office falsely claiming his inauguration was the most-viewed in history, with the largest audience in attendance in Washington."

Humpty I have a feeling he trained Trump!

Some seem to think that if your keep Trumpeting (pun intended) the same old sound bites people will believe them. Of course they are right but I hope enough of us will tell the truth for people to listen. I am still hoping that enough of those who have shouted Leave over and over again will eventually sit back and realise they are wrong and just quietly go and vote next week for a remain party. No one will ever know that they did the right thing. That is of course unless one of them can show me facts that prove I am wrong. 4 refused so far but still hopeful......................

In your dreams lol no chance ?

Here are some of the many reasons to REMAIN

www.remainvoter.com/post/reasons-to-stay-in-the-eu

Fire which part of 'no chance' do you mean? Is it 'sit back and realise they are wrong' or 'do the right thing'? Or even 'unless one of them can show me facts that prove I am wrong"? Perhaps it is all of them.

Seems like that is now 5 leavers refusing to answer the question. Wonder if that is because they can't?

There are plenty of niggles that I have about the EU but my reason for voting remain was:-

Undoing 40 years of EU membership was far too complex to achieve without a great deal of disruption, far better for us to reform it by staying in.

I now know it causes far more disruption than I thought.