Jacinda Ardern

I spotted a placard on the Put it to the People March which said "please can we have New Zealand's Prime Minister?"

I returned from NZ in February after 2 wonderful months out there. I had been before on my own for a month in 2017, loved it, so took my better half this time.

If we had been 30 years younger we would have emigrated there. It feels incredibly safe. Everyone is very friendly and speaks even a good morning, similar to that where I live in Portugal, another safe country.

It’s nice to be dragged back in time where people are pleasant to each other, say good morning etc.

maryliza that is exactly what I was saying, with the majorityof the country against gun measures at the time the Prime Minister could not get these laws. She is not a dictator.

You may have noticed that our Prime Minister is having a similar problem. She cannot do something that our elected representatives are against.

so maryeliza she cannot change gun laws on her own

Last time I looked NZ was a parliamentary democracy ab

Will she change the gun laws on her own or with the support of parliament?

I thought she wanted to change them but the will of the MPS and many of the rural population were against it.

I think the Nobel Peace Prize is a bit of a red herring and certainly OTT. I don't know where the rumour arose but I haven't heard any suggestion about it here. However, I would say that Jacinda Ardern has done rather more than ban military-style weapons – essential though that is – and done it decisively and without fanfares.

You cant balme the NZ PM for things that happened before sh etook onthe job..or expect her to forsee things that MIGHT happen in the future.Like most people who get anew job she'll have been dealing with the issues that landed on her desk daily .I dont believe she deserves a medal or a title even for doing her job but credit where its due,she acted swiftly correct the law that was at fault .Thats all anyone can do.I daresay none of the UK government expected Dunblane we certainly didn't and we were glad that the gun laws were changed as necessary .There hasn't been a mass shooting in Scotland since and hopefully wont ever be again .Thats what the aim was and for Ms Ardern we can hope it works as well as it has here

RosieLeah much the same thing could have been said about the children who have been shot in schools. Why didn't they have guards? It is apparently something right wing Americans intend to deal with by arming teachers. Will it work? I suspect not. Just ensure the teacher is shot first.People in churches, mosques and schools have the right to pursue their lives in peace and safety and if the state cannot completely erradicate all risks it can do its best to make it more difficult for anyone to obtain weapons and do such terrible things.

Where does RL/M deep seated antipathy towards JA come from? It really does seem extremely strange and yes other worldly.

Have I wandered into some parallel universe perhaps?

And how many worshippers in any church would challenge someone going in RosieLeah

So their own fault for not guarding themselves......??

I stand by everything I have said. There have been several terrorist attacks in European countries, aimed at white people (though others have been affected too). This may have given Muslims the impression that they were safe, and need not take precautions to guard themselves. This man appears to have simply walked unchallenged into a mosque, carrying a deadly weapon, and opened up on worshippers. Up until now, any New Zealander had the right to possess said deadly weapons. As I stated previously, this attack has been a wake-up call, not just to the New Zealand government but to all Muslims. Ardern has simply done something which anyone with common sense should have done long ago, tightened up gun laws. She doesn't deserve a medal for that!

Your argument is that JA is therefore responsible for these deaths as she didn’t anticipate this atrocity lacks logic. You are entitled to your opinion yes, but when you put forward a spurious argument you can expect it to be challenged.

Thank you Maryeliza, I’m pleased you think my arguments are ‘ably demonstrated’. However this does not detract from the fact that no one can ‘call out’, in other words correct, someone else for holding a particular opinion. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, even you. Here’s a little reminder,

‘I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.’
Usually attributed to Voltaire but frequently attributed to others as well.

I have no need of being ‘called out’ because I have every right to express my opinion. So do you, I just happen to not agree with you.

Getting back to the point in question, JA made no mention of reform of the gun laws prior to her election. I know this because I have checked it out, and therefore my original point still stands, it is admirable that JA is now going to reform New Zealand’s gun laws, but sadly it is 50 deaths too late, although it hopefully will bring down the high rate of death from guns in NZ ( check it out, it makes for very interesting reading.) JA is acting in exactly the same way that John Major acted in 1996.

And now, interesting as our discussion is, I must away and get myself ready for the Ruby Wedding I am attending this afternoon. I wish you a pleasant afternoon, but I won’t have the time to engage with you any longer.

I rather think that any of us have the right to call anyone out for any opinion they have as you have just ably demonstrated maddy.

After the Dunblane massacre in 1996, the British government announced that there would be an inquiry, and The Cullens Report gave it’s findings in the same year. Following this, new legislation was passed to limit the ownership of guns. This was in 1996. Is anyone suggesting the then Prime Minister, John Major, should have been given The Nobel Peace Prize for his swift response to the terrible event?

There has been ample evidence over the whole world for many years of the awful mass shootings that can arise from poor control of the ownership of guns. Governments should have acted long ago to prevent wide ownership of guns. That they have not done so in so many cases is a terrible blot on today’s world.

No one has any right to ‘call others out’ for holding legitimate opinions. It is not the right of others to behave arrogantly by asserting that theirs is the only acceptable view. I have often observed this phenomenon on Gransnet, particularly on the political threads. It is sad that some people think they have the right to ‘call others out’, clearly these people do not believe that others have any right to a view, unless it matches their own. I have news for them, other people are just as entitled to hold a view as themselves, even if they disagree with that view.

Anja there’s always two actually - not just one. And it’s right to challenge them on this thread and call them out here IMO. To let sarcastic comments go unchallenged or unremarked on can seem to give them legitimacy. What’s sad in general though is how low the standards of our leaders have fallen that this young women with her compassion, integrity and steely determination to change things is seen as so remarkable. Paying for the funerals of victims of terroism should be the least any of us should expect - in the US I read ages ago that people injured in the Boston Marathon attack were crowd funding to pay for their medical treatment and here, a charity had to pay for the funeral of that poor women who died in Salisbury by what I would call an act of terror as well.

4allweknow. Did it not strike you as odd that your friends reached their decision to leave in just six weeks?
I am sure that there was far more to it than that.
I have lived in New Zealand and was made to feel welcome. As a Brit you are considered as family.
Jacinda has behaved impeccably and deserves the respect of all.

Didn’t know that. What a lovely gesture.

Victims, Sorry , predictive txt.

Jacinda also said that all the burial costs of the Vicks of the shooting would be covered by the NZ government , highly commendable act ,

And how could that have been prevented RosieLeah do you have a crystal ball?

And in answer to your other point, she got off her backside and has considerably tightened up gun laws. No messing, no false promises, no dillydallying.

She has shown world leaders how to act in the aftermath of an appalling tragedy, unlike May after Grenfell or Trump after almost everything.