Shemima Begum

Gabriella it’s reported the last baby died of pneumonia and the two before died of ‘breathing difficulties’ so probably the same have you an iota if an idea what life in a refugee camp is like ?
Ah Beau the great British values you mean the values that have constantly robbed countries of their wealth and resources, those great values that sell arms and make money out of any situation including death , the values that send West Indians back to where ‘they belong’ after working and paying taxes here all their lives, those same values that wouldn’t let the Gurkhas settle here, that happily split families up, I could go on but the list is too long

This girl in her interviews seems distant, removed from all feelings, disengaged not an enemy waiting to kill she needs help to rehabilitate her not hatred, isn’t that what has got the world in the mess in the first place
Rowantree I m glad someone can feel something other than hatred for this girl
I don’t call myself anything why do people think being a Christian in a Christian country makes everything perfect
If over population is our problem I can think of MANY indigenous folks who sit on their backsides and take government handouts all their life or paedophiles and murderers who I would love to be rid of but if course they are white and probably Christians and ‘ belong’ here
Such double standard

Anja none of us know whether there were two previous now dead babies but the journalists who interviewed her say that there was a new-born baby, and he's also dead.

She is under the control of the Kurds and she is an 'enemy' to them, having helped to sustain ISIS for four years - do you think they'd allow her to masquerade with someone else's baby? As far as I understand the baby died in a Kurdish-controlled hospital and a death certificate issued.

As for not looking very maternal - there are many women who've been accused (and convicted) of harm to their children, because they didn't fit the image of a doting, cuddly mother. As I've said on various threads, this young woman is gormless and stupid and often looks 'out of it' - she didn't even have the guile, or advised to, to pose for doting, sweet photo opportunities with that poor child; instead she sat there like a lump saying things that were were destined to get everyone's back up.

That poor baby could have had a chance of life if he'd been brought back to the UK.

Anja I have to admit the same thought crossed my mind too. Maybe I’m a conspiracy theorist then. But she didn’t seem the least maternal with that baby. She had it across her lap like a handbag. Who’s to say the baby wasn’t ‘borrowed’ for the camera? None of us ‘know’ only what we’re told.

No I don't but no doubt you hsve first-hand knowledge.
If SB was radicalised here then it must have occure D within her 'family' unit as Muslim females are not the pubbing and clubbing type nor do their families allow them to congregate on street corners to mix with men.
One can then assume that they hadca tv at home and read the news, in any case, she would have heard about the killings, bombs and beheadings in school chatter and probably at home.
If only half these suppositions are true, then bringing her back to the UK will only give her more of the same.
I'm sure that she expected a life, free of parental restrictions with early marriage and babies to a husband who was a 'fighter for the cause' which she was complicit in espousing. All very exciting....until paytime. No thought for family or the country which gave her an education.
I certainly don't want my taxes or those of my AC/GC to support an ISIS sympathizer. We have enough of them here among us right now.
Religion=hate=war=deaths=cities ruined=instability.
It's a domino effect and that is an indisputable fact.

All of it is heartbreaking. This baby, this girl, and most of all, the damaged children facing the rest of their lives without parents and siblings and with crippled or missing limbs caused by the whole mess in Syria.

What will be will have to be with this one.

This thread is just terrible - want nothing to do with this. As Gill said

'Few people on here need to check their so called Christian faith.'

Who said that they were of the Christian faith jura?

Will those defending this woman so strongly also defend those British soldiers facing prosecution for actions in Northern Ireland 50 years ago. After all could it not be said they were indoctrinated by the wicked British (sorry English) government when young men and should be forgiven for any misguided actions?

Anja that same thought must have crossed anyone’s mind if they had thought about the whole scenario. It certainly did mine.It doesn’t make anyone ‘horrible’ to wonder at what actually went on, where little is proveable either way.
Believing all that is announced as news, or reading newspapers of anything that went on in the chaos of Syria is a waste of time.

I think that Sajid Javid acted rather hastily as others have ben allowed back into this country.
Of course, he is not a Christian, jura, he is a Muslim.

The young woman seems quite different to the purposeful teenager setting out with her friends, and no, she is not stupid as someone upthread said; naïve and perhaps easily led but she was, by all accounts, an 'A' grade student.

She just looks as if she's now in shock, and defeated.
However, she is not the only one there (where is her friend, for instance?) but all the publicity has focussed on her and she has made herself persona non grata both here and in the camp.

Believing all that is announced as news, or reading newspapers of anything that went on in the chaos of Syria is a waste of time.
That is very true, lemongrove.

I am not a ‘Christian’ either jura and have no ‘faith’ to check. Just my own sense of decency and fair play to all.

I am not a christian and it sometimes amuses me that people who claim to have faith are sometimes unable to apply the basic principles of that faith (Prodigal son anyone?). I have posted before about how SB was a child soldier and so needs to be properly rehabilitated. How she is this country's responsibility and we should clean up our own messes not leave them to the overstretched resources of poor countries and refugee camps. But hey she's a woman, she hasn't behaved exactly as women are expected to, she continues to not play the game and sob into the cameras, and such is the society we now live in that only very visible signs of contrition are acceptable. The age of the stiff upper lip has gone. So she was recruited at 15, subjected to training and conditioning when she arrived that we know nothing about, she has seen beheadings and other atrocities, lived in a war zone and lost 3 babies and she is still only 19. She is now being manipulated and used by the British press who are not known for their ethics or standards. She is simply another woman suffering because of a terrible war and it is simply unjust to hold her at all responsible for the horrors of that war because of a choice she made at 15. I hope she wins her case is brought home and sues SJ and the Home Office. The money could pay for the therapy she undoubtedly needs.

trisher would you say the same of a 19 year old Male ?

If he was recruited at 15 Yes! These are children. Most civilised countries recognise that recruitment before the age of 18 is unacceptable and that not all child soldiers are recruited by force. Unfortunately the consequences of recruitment at that age and the subsequent problems are no different for volunteers or for forced child soldiers. The adolescent brain is complicated and research is in its early stages but it seems to indicate that regimes imposed by military organisations severely affect the child's ability to deal with emotions and lead to very disturbed mental health problems.

Kids are groomed in many ways in our country. They are groomed into knife and drug gangs, groomed by sex gangs and groomed by all kinds of radicals.

It is harder to groom a kid that already feels like the belong and matter.

We are all responsible for kids who only find belonging and purpose in the wrong places

I agree trisher

For anyone who attends a public beheading as a social event wouldn't ever get my sympathy !
SB being a perpetrator rather than a vulnerable brutalised person, didn't even turn a hair.

She could have sought help for each of her babies----so why didn't she ? There was/is even much she could have assisted this country with if she'd made up her mind to follow Western rules but the way I see it is that she's chosen to continue her support of ISIS.

What was to stop her from appearing and pleading ??

All on a stolen passport ! Where did her air fare come from ? Stolen too ? This being the case then what she did was well-planned and not a spur of the moment decision.

Anja: . But this was a well nourished young woman judging by her chubby face and chin. So I don’t understand how her two previous children died from malnutrition (allegedly). Nor did she hold this last child in any way that suggested maternal feelings. It was as if she was holding a doll.

This was not a well nourished woman, She had 'lost' her food card, (not difficult in that sort of place) and had not been eating herself, let alone feeding her child.
And FFS, she had lost two children already, and this baby was never going to survive without outside help. Is it any wonder she was unable to bond with him?
This young woman is not going to be a danger to the British people as Javid insists. She needs help, not condemnation, whatever she has been led into. Even if that means in a prison.
Once the UK was a compassionate country, but for the last 30 years a culture of Me has emerged, if Me and Mine are ok, bugger the rest of them.

I feel angry about terrorism and mindless killing of innocent victims, but I think it can be such a destructive, although normal emotion. I feel angry, but also sad and compassionate towards this girl, and her dead children, and the many children who are now dying in refugee camps, without a chance to live their lives. I am not religious but have just been shown a poem by a Buddhist Monk called Thich Nast Hahn. "Please call me by my true names". It says it all really for me.

I do wonder why at 19, two babies dead she was unwilling to let her baby come here to her family , yes mother love, but isn’t it the most natural act for a mother to save her child , this does niggle away in my mind

Anyone who expects anything resembling what they consider 'normal' behaviour from this young woman is expecting the impossible. How she came to be recruited is irrelevant. She was recruited. She has suffered and she needs help. If we had reacted to her with the care she deserves her baby might well still be alive.

Sudan, Congo, Zimbabwe some of the poorest countries in world but those mothers look after their babies best they can, even feeding them themselves albeit malnourished themselves, so how come a young nourished woman was unable to sustain these babies as afterall they must have been nourished enough to have been born ?

There are thousands of the above innocent women in war-zones who didn't ask to be there nor did they join in with the fighting. Get the priorities right !

She was a child EllanVannin when she was recruited. There is a website about child soldiers. Of course there are innocent women. there are also innocent men. This is a debate about one British girl recruited at 15 and used by an evil regime. All this victim blaming is to make some people feel better about the terrible results of our involvement in the middle East and our inabiliy to protect or even rehabilitate those who are suffering as a result, even when they have a right to be called British.