High street store Lush brands the police "liars"

I was thinking on wider issues Maggiemaybe such as the Steven Laurence affair and many more I could name if I set my mind to it.

Perhaps you ought to read my post in a wider context?

Or perhaps you should stick to the subject of the thread?

It would be really lovely if those of you who criticised the campaign showed some concern for the women caught up in the undercover work. And I don’t just mean the women from the groups that were infiltrated - this week in the Guardian there was a letter from two women who had been married to two of the policemen when they went undercover and then had to find out that their husbands were cheating on them and even fathering other children. They were very critical of the inordinate delay in the review even starting and the reasons why. They are grateful to Lush for getting their concerns into the public eye again after it seemed that no one least of all the Government or the Police cared. Perhaps those of you so critical of the campaign could suggest what could have been done instead? How many of you even knew of the issue and that the review was being held up?

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jun/06/spycop-ex-wives-we-support-the-lush-campaign

This is the letter - it’s hard to avoid being critical of the police/HO isn’t it? When there are concerns about police conduct , families very often have to fight hard for years to be listened to - let alone to get justice. Uncritical support for the police can be very dangerous

Those of us critical of the campaign have all acknowledged that there are corrupt police officers. None of us have written in their defence. I know that you've stated on GN that you are intellectually superior to many of us, maryeliza, but even so most of us have read a news report or two in our time, so will have been aware of the issue, just as I assume you were. We don't need to be educated by the people selling us our soap.

Of course I have concern for the people (not all of them women) caught up in the undercover work, but I also have concern for the over-stretched, already much maligned police officer on the front line, who has been dragged into something that he/she had absolutely nothing to do with.

Well said Maggie

So Maggie what would you have suggested the various women do when the state was letting them down? It’s easy to criticise Lush but it would be interesting to know what alternative courses of action were open to the women. It’s intellectually lazy to criticise without an alternative solution

I have no problem with the police in general, but I did think I would look into the campaign a bit more and the thinking behind it.

Having done that, I can see that the subject of the delayed enquiry did need some publicity. perhaps the campaign was a bit cack handed, but it was in no way done to gain some "left wing kudos" nor is it in any way concerned with Jeremy Corbyn

All who commit adultery are 'undercover'. My question has always been: Were the police officers involved instructed to have sexual relationships with these women. If the answer was yes, then the force should be held responsible. If the answer was no, then what are the police force being blamed for the misdeeds of a couple if officers. Would we hold any other employer responsible for the infidelity of their employees?

It’s intellectually lazy to criticise without an alternative solution

Unlike you, maryeliza, I've never claimed to be an intellectual.

It's not just infidelity though, it is a misuse of public office. I don't suppose they were instructed to have sex with the women, but did their senior officers turn a blind eye? The enquiry needs to look at the culture that surrounded the use of undercover officers.

Joel we need the review to try and find out the truth so why on Earth is it being allowed to be held up like this - 3 years? 3 years? We’ll probably need a review to find out why the delay and whose interests were being served? Not the women’s that’s for sure . I’m guessing that senior officers knew about the sex and turned a blind eye and I bet there’s evidence to that effect. Ilove I agree with you about the campaign being crack handed and probably lush would have done better to outsource it and use different tactics. None of this makes the problem go away but what the delay dies is send a message to the police as an organisation that they are entitled to delay access to justice and hope to get away with it as the there will be all the arguments of ‘ but we can’t remember it was so long ago’.

Crack = cack

Doreen Lawrence supports Lush by the way and if anyone knows anything about unacceptable police behaviour,it’s her

Good posts Maggiemaybe
Regardless of any rights/wrongs by undercover police, Lush have decided to enter the arena of news and politics instead of concentrating on selling overscented and overpriced bath bombs/soaps.
I expect they are happy, having got their shops in the news.
If they are not happy, perhaps they won’t do this kind of thing again, it all depends on how it has affected their sales.
Their shop in Oxford was completely empty when I passed by this week, with two young shop assistants stood together chatting.

Cheap way to advertised

What would you do lemon and ab to get this review kick started or would you just leave it on the basis that it doesn’t matter much? Lush do much charity work and campaigning and have done for years and to sugges its all about publicity says a great deal about you.

They’ll hopefully be a bit more careful next time but they won’t be stoppingbther campaign and charity work I’m sure

Or maybe they’ll just die away like Greggs did?

The review will be started if it deserves to be started, simple as that.Depending on evidence and facts.

Are you usually so rude Maggiemaybe or have I upset you?

lemongrove do you really believe that?

Haven’t seen any rude posts by Maggiemaybe I think you mean Maryeliza.

Lush cannot start proceedings OldMeg these things come about if there is a need for one ( inquiry) but there must be fact based evidence and enough of it for prosecuction to bring a case.I have no idea if there is enough evidence or not.

Ilovecheese good to read a balanced post at last. Behind all this there are some serious examples of bad behaviour from undercover agents and it’s not the first time.

The review, like so many others in the past, could easily have been delayed, and delayed again or brushed under the carpet were it not for concerned individuals or organisations pressing for answers.