Redistributing wealth between the generations

Let’s face it friends we have created a generation who believes they should live for today, have a good time and get what they want when they want it. They have no concept of self sacrifice or being without. Poor to many of them means not being able to get a mobile phone signal. Their attitude is we have it all, we didn’t have as much as they have now and what we do have we’ve had to work hard for. Let’s stop giving in to these kids, make em stand on their own two feet, living in rented accommodation paying their own bills will soon make them realise their priorities are not eating out and partying at our expense. There is a self satisfying sense of achievement in this far more gratifying than a forgotten Pizza night out.

Seems to me young people have heard that they can't get on the property ladder, so they don't bother to try - saving is not a word they're familiar with, can't get on ladder so might as well have a good time and spend what we have got.

We managed a small two bedroom terrace Victorian house in the early seventies - but no central heating - an oil heater in one room, no television, no car, no washing machine, no garden - just a small back yard - no holidays - all these things have come with time and a lot of hard work - but today's youth don't want to live like that and seem to be doing things in reverse to us.

God bless you Supergran. I agree.

This is a different generation - yes I struggled too with mortgages, but while my first house in 1970s cost 3x average salary, my children's first house would cost 10x. My mum borrowed our deposit (her credit rating was better than ours) and I paid her back. I couldn't borrow a deposit now for my kids.

Anyone else think this thread is turning into a Monty Python sketch?

Yes, the harder I worked the luckier I became.

I can’t remember exactly how much we earned in 1969, but we bought a lovely semi in nice area for £4000. We were teachers and pay then was not as good as now, we got £48 a month in 1966 when we started earning.
I think it’s much harder for young people now.

I married in the '70s. Oh yes it was much was much easier financially for us back then. All mortgages were 2 1/2 times husbands salary and half wife's salary. Bought a flat for £5,400, sold it 3 years later for £15,000.
Promptly bought large family house for £32,000 (husband wanted to spend £22,000 max ... Misguided man).
That particular house is now worth a whopping £1 million!
Though we moved on about 12 years ago. I was still all for playing the property market game (husband wanted to play it safe) and current house has received an offer if almost £1.5 million.

My point being that without the massive increases in property values, I doubt many of us would be fortunate enough to 'help' our adult children.

My two are, however, both totally self sufficient having been encouraged from their first jobs (paper rounds) to work and save ALWAYS! Neither use credit cards, both have great lifestyles.

I do occasionally surprise them with a generous financial gift because I want to!

They do complain about how hard work is nowadays and I would entirely agree. Lunch hours (10 mins max). Leaving work in time (rarely). And all the rest!

They both know of course they'll have a nice nest egg coming their way one day .....
But they have never asked for money and that's the way I like it !!!

When we were first married in the mid sixties there simply weren't the things to have which perhaps made it easier! Like everyone on here we made do and mend. Our first bought home as very pretty but tiny! two up, two down. No bathroom, outside (flushing!) loo, babies bathed in the kitchen sink. Furniture from a second hand (junk?) shop, carpet, ditto. I did have a keymatic washing machine, (a gift from my parents) also a recon Hoover, a Kenwood chefette a wedding gift from my MIL and a pressure cooker, again a wedding present. We did get a full grant to have a bathroom extension! We were so chuffed and considered ourselves really well off. Holidays?! We camped!! My goodness, I can still remember the rain!! I remember this as one of the happiest period of our lives and apart from now, the most contented. High interest rates, a growing family, long working hours often away from home, had its rewards and also sadly its heartaches.

Let’s face it friends we have created a generation who believes they should live for today, have a good time and get what they want when they want it

Speak for yourself maybe Kathcan1 but neither of my children have been brought up like that and (like me) haven’t ever been handed anything for nothing .

Yes, the harder I worked the luckier I became

What a load of twaddle shortlegs .

There is a nasty, vicious tone emerging from one side of the political spectrum based on resentment and entitlement and this seems to have infected many young people. I have even detected it in my DD at times though she had a top education, was helped to a house deposit by her DF and I and has been treated well and generously.

I think the Resolution Foundation is much to blame for trying to split the generations. It is clearly an attempt to asset-tax away the wealth of the old to be spent or misspent by government.

I have told my DC that their best interest is in leaving things as they are because they have the prospect of a decent inheritance unincumbered from us, their parents, whereas, if the 'intergenerational envy' mob get hold of it there will not be a penny for them.

I too loathe these generalisations. Actually, I do remember some of the figures.
My parents were given their first house, which cost £1000 in 1956, when my dad's wage was £500pa. They were given it from a lucky win at the races. So of course they were 'lucky' - the horse might have fallen!
Our first house, bought in 1973 cost £7,500, which was the salary of 2 senior nurses. The mortgage + life insurance at that point cost us one wage.
House price inflation has done the rest.
We have saved to give our children a start on the housing ladder, where they are buying houses costing 10x a salary.
They are grateful, and on the whole don't waste money. We have certainly tried to enable them, in various creative ways, to maximise the time time they spend with their young children.

The article’s light-hearted, but its premise is that it’s the middle-aged who are most squeezed. I agree, and feel for them. Though our income’s much lower now, so are our outgoings, even though we have a good life. Those days of helping out our children by swapping debt from one interest free credit card to the next (we had all our three at Uni for one memorable year, so three rents on top of our mortgage, and fees for three) are long gone and we can relax. As for the generational divide, yes, far too many are struggling to get on the housing ladder, for all sorts of reasons. But not all. Two of our AC have bigger and better houses than the one they grew up in. The other has one much like ours, but she’s on her own, with just the one salary. They have much better social lives than we had at their age, and I’m pleased they have. But those middle years will be looming soon....

Anyone else think this thread is turning into a Monty Python sketch?

It was utterly predictable, Hm999. It happens every time...

Day 6 I agree with you I'm 58 working in childcare 30 hrs partime? I love to hear on a Monday morning the young parents who have had it hard at the weekend. Out drinking out with friends and left the children with Gran parents that have been working all week too. Often the mums have been on hen dos abroad husbands taking care of the children. It's a new world new times. However I loved having my children and being a stay home mum for a while. My youngest son is on his own and I fill his cupboards once a month feed him twice a week and it doesn't bother me at all. Just hope some nice girl eventually comes along for him. I look after my grandchildren Saturday nights but not every week as my husband and myself need time together as he works long hours at 61 can't see it changing.

I think there's scope for a new life swap reality show here. Forcing the younger generation to forego their social lives for half a lager and lime and a game of bingo at t'club with their mums and dads. Swap their Ubers for t'corporation bus (which I've heard some of them call the peasant wagon). Live in a shoebox in the middle of the road....

There'll be tears before bedtime.

A couple of points about this:

For a start, the increase in house prices doesn't bring a corresponding increase in wealth to those living in the houses. If a couple bought their house in 1970 for £5000, and it's now worth £355,000, this extra 300K is not accessible wealth. They bought a house, and they still own the same asset - a house. The only way they can realise the asset and benefit from the increase in property values would be by selling up and making themselves homeless.

The other thing is that these much-envied houses that many of us have bought and worked for over a lifetime will not vanish into thin air when we die. In a few cases, they will have to be sold to pay for care, but in most families, the house will be passed on to the next generation, so they'll inherit this as an unearned asset.

In many families, this process is already under way. The boom in home ownership in the middle of the last century means that houses are already being passed down as inheritance, as the generation born earlier in the century die off. The beneficiaries may well be people of the Gransnet/baby-boomer generation, but again, this wealth isn't lost, much of it will filter down to our children and grandchildren both during our lifetimes and after we die.

So the younger generations should be grateful, rather than envious, if they have richer parents and grandparents than we did, as they will get a share of this wealth.

Of course, all the above applies only to those who own property. Families who have only ever rented their homes are further than ever from being able to buy a house. The big gap is not between the generations, but between the socio-economic groups who own property and those who do not.

There is another aspect to this an that is how some think the elderly have no right to keep their good fortune to pass on to their children. There are many fraudulent scams happening to try and often succeed in getting monies out of bank accounts without permission. Single pensioners are very vulnerable. I have been targeted twice, the first time by a distant relative who "pretended" to be a carer to a social worker and solicitor ( this person lives 500 miles away) to try and sign in my place to get money. The police stopped her. The second was when I asked an old age charity to help me find a qualified tradesman to do some work on my home making clear exactly what I wanted. All along they let me know they put my requirements first, they were respecting my wishes and they were doing checks and comparisons so I would not be "ripped off". There were months before a contract was drawn up, they had found the "best roofer in the city" and he was worth the "bit extra" for the quality of work and peace of mind. A weeks' work was done in one day, in a gale leaving a terrible mess not just on my premises but in my drive and road. He damaged an adjacent roof which leaks into the building, his worksmanship was terrible. I expected the charity to sort things out, their tradesman has actually damaged my home. Instead I was told "pay up or we take you to Court"!. When I invited experts to see the damage they all told me I was being charged THREE times the going rate! This old age charity was using "handy men" in place of experts but charging the most they could get away with! The Banks and Abuse Charities are doing their best to try and prevent these scams . There is so much greed out there and a belief that if an opportunity arises it is fine to take money from the elderly. I have children who live a distance away and they never ask for anything. But these instances have completely shocked us all and I look forward to the time it becomes a real crime.

My children are all indepedent. I have occasionally lent money on the understanding that is is paid back. I still work full time and still save so that one day I will be able to retire (I am 67). I cannot believe what some older people put up with from adult children who really are taking advantage. How will they ever become independent...those apron strings have to be cut.....

Friend and I were in Leeds one Friday afternoon and had great difficulty finding somewhere to eat at 5 pm as everywhere was booked. Finally ate in Wagamama (love it) and on coming out every restaurant and bar was teeming with youngsters, who in 'our' day maybe would have had a half and gone home not be settled in for the evening. Its no wonder they can't save for a deposit, luxuries seem to come first. Having said that, all three of our DCs have good jobs, houses and families and thankfully don't have to borrow from us and they live too far away for babysitting services too!

If your kids are bad with money then maybe you should look at how you brought them up!

All of mine were brought up the same, trotting off down to the BS to put in their savings, some birthday money etc, saving up for what they wanted.
Nowadays, one is very careful with money, another is reasonably careful and the other one is hopeless!

Why should I be made to feel guilty I own what was termed by the estate agents prior to purchase as 'enviable property in an enviable location'?Why do I need to justify how and why I have such a property.?I/we had to start somewhere.Apart from our honeymoon our first holiday was not until we had been married six years, and with two small children was taken on a lot to be desired caravan site in an even more lot to be desired caravan that we had to get to by rail or bus as owning our own car was out of the question.
We started, when able to put down a deposit, with a two bed bungalow. I was not able to be a stay at home mum
if we wanted to buy our own property so took jobs that would revolve around my children .As DH walked in from work I walked out and on many occasions did not get home until well past midnight if my shift required. I was lucky to be given a lift home if some one was going in my direction. DH had to cycle to work until he was able to buy a motor bike.
Rome wasn't built in a day and I resent the attitude and remarks I am now expected to take being 'oh its all right for you, look what you have ' Well do what I/we did. It can be hard and DH and self did not get what I now have sitting on our ar* and nights out with the girls/lads , continental holidays ? things which many now, and do feel, bereft without.Not always is it about choice but if given that option then its knowing where your priorities lie.

I can't help feeling that the way children are brought up these days, given everything, spoiled rotten, does not put them in good stead for later life when the bank of parents is no longer available. They know no other than ask and they will be given. It's just the tip of the ice burg, it will get a lot worse if parents don't realise that giving children everything they want will cause the child severe suffering when faced with the real world. We are breeding a lot of selfish, narcisstic adults who are used to being pampered and spoiled as a way of life. Goodness knows what we can expect future generations to turn out like. Watch this space, umm.

As has been said here people lead very different lives but if you watch any TV programmes whether British or American people are living these social lives meeting others in the pub or restaurant. You see single women in fairly normal jobs - still young- living in homes fit for a film star - big rooms, kitchens to die for and expensive decorative pieces. No wonder youngsters think that they are entitled to all this and straight away.
They now expect to have these lives and go on all sorts of exotic holidays.

Children of 30 years of age need to look at their present situation in comparison with their parents' lifestyle when they themselves were in their 30s, not as they live now in their 60s or 70s. Also, the ridiculous rise in house prices has been caused by this country having too high a population chasing too few properties and people being willing to pay those prices and not by the older generation having the audacity to own their own home.

Like many on this site, I'm sure, my parents were working class and in council property and had nothing to give or loan me. There were no expectations of any sort of inheritance and it was always understood that it was mine and my husband's responsibility if we didn't want to end up in the same situation.

I wonder how many who have commented on this thread have actually read the article I posted a link to.
Tim Harford isn’t suggesting that old people should have their wealth redistributed to the young. He merely uses David Willett’s quote as a starting point to muse about how it is all really more complicated than that, and to make some possibly tongue-in-cheek observations.
The title of his article is actually ‘A monetary remedy for the midlife crisis’ and he argues that the generation which would benefit most from financial support is not the young or old, who report being happy with their lot, but the middle-aged (the generation to which he belongs) presumably struggling with their mortgages, supporting their growing families and making provision for their own retirement.