Unions and strikes -a real threat or just a succesful media promotion.

Well done Allygran a lot of research there.
Lansman is the usual kind of champagne socialist, indeed reading all that, one is reminded of the book Animal Farm.

Lansman is the usual kind of champagne socialist,

Is it that you just don't like people moving out of their social sphere, lemon? Rich people should be rich and utter bastards, poor people should be poor and never the twain shall meet?

No, not at all, in fact I will put the same as I just have done on another thread.
People who dabble in socialism ( like Lansman) and decry the evils of capitalism , whilst at the same time making vast amounts of money from their own capitalist ventures, should not be taken seriously.....people who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

lemon, all he has to do is utter ‘I feel your pain’ then he cannot be a capitalist .

Spot on Lemongrove and Anniebach.

Why all the talk of Lansman and Momentum in this tread. I believe that Momentum did a great job in returning the decision-making in the parliamentary Labour party back to the grassroots members. Blair, Brown and their cohort's had virtually taken away grassroots involvement in decision making and Momentum restored that base membership involvement within the party.

However, that accomplished Momentum are in my view somewhat in the tracks of UKIP having fulfilled the single objective they set out to achieve they now have no agenda to fulfil.

Evidence to the above can be seen in recent appointments within the Labour party especially in Jennie Formby becoming General Secretary. Formby has a long-standing Trade Union background and her appointment is being seen as the close links between the wider Labour movement in the country and the Labour Party being fully restored.

It must always be remembered that the Labour Party was born out of the Trade Unions and they have paid the vast majority of its bills through thick and thin for over a century. Therefore why once again should they not have a full say in the making of Labours policies?

Unions had full say in keeping Lord Robens in office even though he was economical with the truth , still the victims were only Children

Maw, I missed your deleted post. Don’t flounce please.
Allygran - great post, thanks.
I’m a trad labour voter, I did flounce and cancel my membership after giving JC a year to convince me he could be the party leader we need.

Didn't Corbyn ask Lansman to withdraw his nomination for the General Secretary position as he felt that Jennie Formby would have a wider appeal within Labour than Lansman?

I believe that is correct mostlyharmless.

Could it be? surely not, yet it could be- McClusky told Corbyn he wanted his friend Jennie Formby for the job.

Nah, Corbyn wouldn’t dance to McClusky’s tune ?

I can’t see what “analysing” the Labour Party manifesto has to do with this thread.

Where did the point by point analysis come from? So many misconceptions and misinterpretations in the “analyses”.

^1.Scrap student tuition fees:
Analysis:
Retracted pledge (Angela Rayner) and John McDonald:
Labour retracted its pledge to abolish student debt yesterday as Shadow Education Secretary Angela Rayner said there had been “no plans” to write-off existing loans and her party “never promised to do so”^

Two different things are being confused here.
Scrapping tuition fees was in the manifesto, but scrapping past student debts was not.
The right wing press choose deliberately to confuse the two issues. It was NOT a retracted pledge.

This has been discussed many times on these threads before and is old news.

And who is John McDonald?

I too could not see how going through the last Labour manifesto had any connection to the perceived threat (or not as the case may be) of the trade unions to the stability of this country.

“Day6 Mon 30-Apr-18 19:50:49
If you are not pro-Momentum and pro-Corbyn you are cast into the wilderness. You'd be vetted for your hard-left credentials. There is NO ROOM FOR MODERATES within the Labour Party.”

“Disliking Corbyn and his Marxist cronies is quite common amongst the chattering classes. Annie is not a lone voice in resenting the power of Momentum and the Corbyn leadership. How could any Labour moderate make their voice heard in the present climate? No chance!”

Allygran1: Grandad, I hope the above answers your question. Do you have a view about the increasing power of Momentum, it's political strong arm activist tactics as it infiltrates and takes over the Labour Party?

Ditto above in response to your second question about why we are discussing Momentum.
Here is some more:
Momentum Members’ Survey 2016/17
Turnout
Number of Momentum members that were sent the survey: 20,076 Number of Momentum members that filled in the survey: 8,100 Percentage of Momentum members that filled in the survey: 40.35%

One set of questions asked indicate the nature of the activities the Momentum members get involved in:
Answer Choices
Responses
Provide campaign materials, resources and a network of speakers
(1)
Run training and workshops on activism, campaigning and political education
(2)
Support Labour Party engagement with information, resources and mentoring
(3)
Provide access to digital technology to support campaigning, including online discussion platforms and phone-canvassing technology
(4)
Provide day to day group admin support
(5)
Support organising activities, campaigns and events in your local area
(6)
Other (please specify)
(7)

Interestingly question 2. Running workshops on activism etc.... the highest percentage vote of 71.07%
Question 4 providing access to digital technology ..........including online discussion platforms came in at 57.5%.

The whole survey is interesting it give insight into the activities of Momentum from the survey questions asked. The link is:
d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/momentum/pages/939/attachments/original/1484068264/Momentum_members_survey_16-17.pdf?1484068264

Activist in the 21st Century are not just carrying placards they are in our computers, or websites, and are being ‘trained’ in how to manipulate the information and the psychology of reinforcing their message through group intimidation tactics. This is the dark side of political activism and smacks at another time, in another Country when youth movements were formed and groups of ‘muscle’ for a certain Political leader wore ‘black shirts’. See the link:

Interview with Jon Lansman
www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/16/momentum-labour-party-jeremy-corbyn-politics-john-harris

Someone posted the Labour Manifesto and listed the policy areas. I merely added some meat to the list.

So the reason it is here on the thread was introduced by someone else. Mine is merely a response.

Grandad sadly all that Corbyn has achieved is to form an activist group made up of largely very well educated, privileged, professionals from elite groups to develop activist cells, who largely intimidate, harass and heckle the grassroots as you call them of the Labour Party out of the local Labour movement.

On a Natonal level the use of digital, technological communication, infiltrate and try to influence through similar tactics of groups attempting to intimidate others with different views into silence using personalised attacks. Whilst Momentum has distanced themselves from one group identified as using such tactics, they are forming a legitimate youth group of their own, who will receive all the training in the activists handbook.

Interview with Jon Lansman
www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/16/momentum-labour-party-jeremy-corbyn-politics-john-harris

Anniebach Politics creates strange bedfellows!

There must be something in it for both of them.

Thanks Iam64!

You’ve resurrected an old thread for some reason.
The Labour manifesto was put there to point out that accusations of Corbyn’s Labour being “hard left” made by posters were nonsense.
allyg you analysed it point by point and failed to prove that it was hard left, also confusing things in the manifesto with things that weren’t in the manifesto at all.

"Mostly:Two different things are being confused here.
Scrapping tuition fees was in the manifesto, but scrapping past student debts was not."

Corbyn and John McDonnell on the scrapping of past student debts. Your right it was not eventually in the manifesto but it was a verbal pledge pre election by Corbyn.

"John McDonnell has rowed back slightly on Jeremy Corbyn’s pre-election suggestion that Labour could wipe out existing student debt, saying this was “an ambition” for the party in power but would not necessarily happen.

"In an interview with the New Musical Express shortly before last month’s election, Corbyn had said Labour would “deal with” the debt of students who had already taken out loans for tuition fees."

Read more
www.theguardian.com/education/2017/jul/05/poorest

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/16/john-mcdonnell-wiping-out-student-loans-labour-jeremy-corbyn

On reading threads, whenever I catch up with them, I contribute with response, on a previous page or not. You need not respond. Just carry on with the thread you are promoting at that time, at the moment is Trade Unions because that is "the message" at the moment I can see that. You will see I also contributed to that.

As I say just don't respond if you think it has past and not relevant to you. As you saw other people did find it relevant to them and responded.

Yes quite! Scrapping fees was a pledge, wiping out past debt was not. That’s not what you said in your “analysis” upthread.

If you join a thread and feel the need to comment, it’s a good idea to read the whole thread allyg otherwise you’re in danger of misinterpreting things or just repeating what has already been said.

Good grief mostly harmless I have had posts repeated from three years ago, not even related to the thread they were posted on.