Unions and strikes -a real threat or just a succesful media promotion.

anniebach stand for election for a position(s) in the party. That could be as a lay branch officer (chairperson or secretary) or from there as a member of the district or constituency managment committee.

In the above you would then be able to put forward resolutions or motions for acceptance by those bodies and in that moved up to reginal or national level for consideration, debate and ballet. Your views then Annie would be in the arena to bring about real change in the Labour party.

Grandad, I forget you are new to this forum, I have posted naming positions I held within the Labour Party

Therefore, you could stand for election on your views at branch, district or constituency party legal within the party and as stated bring about change were it matters?

Ha ha ha ha. I bet Annie is having a wry smile at that. What a fairy tale you spin Grandad.

Annie has been a long standing member of the Labour Party. I don't know how things are in Wales but how do you think Annie would fare today?

If you are not pro-Momentum and pro-Corbyn you are cast into the wilderness. You'd be vetted for your hard-left credentials. There is NO ROOM FOR MODERATES within the Labour Party.

I feel those who did not support Corbyn but who've remained silent on lots of issues merely to keep their seats are extremely hypocritical. Non-Corbynistas have to shut up and put up. I expect many will be worrying what the next general election holds for them. How many will go back to constituencies and find militant hard-left newcomers controlling the local Labour Party and vetting anyone wanting to challenge Labour's transformation?

Disliking Corbyn and his Marxist cronies is quite common amongst the chattering classes. Annie is not a lone voice in resenting the power of Momentum and the Corbyn leadership. How could any Labour moderate make their voice heard in the present climate? No chance!

Day6 quote [I have Grandad, many times and for pay rises. However, the strikes were always organised so our 'clients' weren't too inconvenienced and neither were they long drawn out. No wildcat strikes. Plenty of notice was given to all concerned.

A responsible union is a good union. I have also had the assistance of my union rep and local office when I had a work related problem.] End quote.

Day6 with every respect, I fail to see how any industrial action can be organized without causing severe inconvenience to any organization's clients/customers. Surely the effect of industrial action is designed to bring about loss of revenue to a company and in that customers have to be affected.

To put it in a nutshell, the company's customers do not get the service or product the company offers, so do not have any bills to pay. Hence company loss of revenue and customers going elsewhere.

In regards to how long any action will last, then that is surely is accountable to how long the dispute continues. There is no point in carrying out action for one day if the employer is aware that no further action will be taken whether that action has any effect or not. In the foregoing the employer will in all probability not concede any improvements and then go on to target those involved in the action.

Present legislation dictates that 14 days notice (I believe that is the minimum) of any action taking place must be provided to an employer, and the names of all those who will be involved in the action also has to be provided to the employer at the same time. When that level of information is provided to the employer, they inevitably have more than adequate agency labour on hand on the first day of the action to maintain output and those involved in the dispute are targeted however justified their grievances are.

The above are the reasons why in this country we have ever growing zero hours contracts, poor working conditions, many on minimum wages the gig economy and much more.

As regards to your posting above on anniebach standing for office in the Labour party Day6 you display an attitude of defeat so typical of many in Britain today. The Labour party is a democratic organization and those which do not like what they see in that organization should fight for change from within. How else is any change brought about if not by those who are willing to fight for change.

If all had your attitude Day6 women would still not have the vote in Britain.

Grandad1943, I am surprised you as such a strong supporter of Corbyn have not joined the party, or Momentum

anniebach quote[Grandad1943, I am surprised you as such a strong supporter of Corbyn have not joined the party, or Momentum] end Quote

anniebach, please demonstrate to me where I have stated that I am a "strong supporter of the Corbyn leadership in any of my postings on this forum. I have stated my reasoning why I believe the policy changes in the Labour Party have come about and why. However, whether Jeremy Corbyn can lead the party to overall victory in a general election (or even this week's local elections) is yet to be tested.

That stated, he certainly did much better in last year's general election than expected, but there are those in the party that surround him that may hold more charisma to the wider electorate. I would not expect however any major change in overall policy should any leadership change take place.

For myself, despite becoming an industrial safety officer in management since the mid 1980s and then opening and owning my own company in the same industry since 2003, I still maintain my membership and subscription to the Unite Union as that organization played a major role in my own adult education and industrial Safety training. That education took place throughout several years for which I will always be eternally grateful. It was a service that completely changed my life and that of my growing family in those years and demonstrates just what a union can provide for persons even on an individual basis.

So, Annie, why do you not use the Labour movement that you have subscribed to for so many years and engage to change that which you do not like. You need not at the start have to stand for election any position, but just attend your local party meetings and in that action you may sound out those who may hold views similar to your own, and it can start from there.

Scargill got too big for his boots and was cut down to size, it could happen in the future to such as McCluskey.

Sometimes Union leaders forget what they are actually in place to do, look after their members, and not try and bring down governments.

Grandad, I have already replied to your question about me and my work within the Labour Party in your earlier post on this thread

anniebach, as you state I am relatively new to these forum so perhaps you could afresh in form me of your work and positions in the Labour Party. Just trying to help with your discontent with the organization.

Thank you grandad , after fifty years as a party member I don't help, certaintly not from someone who isn't a member of the party

But Annie I am a member of the larger Labour movement in the country and the largest subscriber to the section of that movement that you have subscribed to for so many years. Therefore we are all comrades together willing to help one and another in times of discontent. That's why we all subscribe to the movement annie

The best work done by the unions is the ordinary bread and butter work of looking after their members at shop floor level. Whether you work for a small company and are being expected to do more than your original contract demanded or are working for a big employer and being treated unfairly your union can help you stand up against mistreatment and injustice, as I know to my benefit.

When it comes to the big national strikes I am a lot less comfortable. Too often the unions seem to be trying to stop changes in industry that are inevitable and by holding back modernisation, do indeed damage the economy.

The miners strike was certainly, first and foremost, about pit closures, which were happening because the coal industry had been in decline for decades. The transfer from coal gas to natural gas had removed a big market for coal, the use of gas instead of coal in many industries and in homes reduced demand even more and air pollution measures (anyone remember the London smogs?) meant that power stations had to burn low-sulphur coal and almost all of the coal produced in Britain has a high sulphur content.

Trying to stop pit closures was like trying to push water up hill, mines were closing because demand for coal was in freefall. What was the point of striking to stop closures if the coal produced was unsaleable? The same backwards mentality lay behind both the dockworkers and printers strikes.

What is more these strikes lost the unions both respect and credibility and by their actions invited and engendered support for the legislation that limited their activities.

I have never understood why the unions think it a matter of pride to cut their noses off to spite their faces.

All union members vote Labour ? Yet only 13% of unite members bothered to vote for a leader last yesr ?

M0nica What was the point of striking to stop closures if the coal produced was unsaleable?
The coal was never "unsaleable". The pit closures were mostly driven by political aims. Yes there were some pits producing coal which was not needed, but now millions of tons of coal is imported to keep our fuel stations going. The miners were trying to ensure the closures were reasonable and carefully managed, Thatcher and her government simply wanted rid of the miners, regardless of the long term effects. How much her policy has cost in terms of imported fuel will never be known.

There should have been a national ballot for the strike. Scargill kept his home , many miners lost theirs , and yes I campaigned in support of the strike , to save my stalker looking back through my old posts .

Good post, trisher

Perhaps MOnica isn't aware that coal mining is still happening in Britain. The Durham countryside has been systematically disfigured over the past few decades by a private company doing very nicely, thank you, out of opencast mining. They wouldn't be doing it if there weren't a market for the coal.

There was nothing wrong with the miners' case. It was extremely unfortunate that their leaders ineptly chose a time when coal stocks were high to pursue the strike.

Opencast mining cannot be compared with deep pit mining. Opencast means heavy machinary is used so far fewer jobs and big difference between this and sinking shafts
Miles below the surface, also opencast produces cheaper coal because less manpower

I wasn't comparing the two, Ab, just pointing out that there is still a demand for home produced coal.

As long as we have got a Conservative government in power I don't think we need to worry too much about the unions becoming too powerful and causing problems.

However, should Labour get in with the hard left Corbyn at the helm then God help us.

Any reasoning behind your fears JenniferEccles or is it simply the result of the sustained press anti-union rhetoric?

I agree Jennifer, whilst I want a labour government , with Corbyn as PM we would have a government controlled by unions as we did in the sixties and seventies plus we would have Momentum arranging demo's every week

This was Labour’s manifesto last June.

Scrap student tuition fees
Nationalisation of England's nine water companies.
Re-introduce the 50p rate of tax on the highest earners (above £123,000)
Income tax rate 45p on £80,000 and above
More free childcare, expanding free provisions for two, three and four year olds
Guarantee triple lock for pensioner incomes
End to zero hours contracts
Hire 10,000 new police officers, 3,000 new firefighters
Moves to charge companies a levy on salaries above £330,000
Deliver rail electrification "including in Wales and the South West".

I can’t see any policies that are “hard left” or give the unions caret blanche.

Sorry - Carte blanche.

Can you name the government which carried out their entire manifesto and didn't bring in anything which wasn't in their manifesto?