Corbyns Torque

I'm afraid that, all those who want to remain in Labour Party have to have the courage to just return their members card with a message explaining why. If 1000s do - and even betterif they join one of the 2 parties who are fighting to remain and made it absolutely clear - even better.

It is massively important he receives a CLEAR message.

jura

Wait for it!

I agree with your post 12.13 but that is no surprise as I have stuck to the point re the Single Market Membership and the treaty obligations to abide by the 4 Pillars/Freedoms .

As for the £10 wage I have questions.

1). If Labour are not elected until 2022 , supposing no General Election is called for , what would/could the minimum hourly wage be anyway? The £10 sounds good now but it will be reduced in value from year to year as the minimum wage rises.

2). If there was a General Election next week and Labour won has Corbyn ' categorically stated ' Labour would immediately enforce a £10 an hour minimum wage from the time it became our government?

I have watched many Labour MP's squirm when asked to 'categorically' say the £10 an hour wage would happen 'immediately' it took office to be honest.

My 'opinion' is an immediate £10 an hour wage could well mean some small businesses close and it would do no good to those who have no trade , good job prospects but are willing to work to provide as best they can.

It is not the case ALL employers are 'raking it in' and a lot have more to lose than their employees if their business folds .

I'm sure there will be a spreadsheet somewhere in the Treasury that models how increasing the minimum wage impacts jobs, tax revenue and benefit payments.

The government - any government - would prefer everyone to be in jobs that paid enough to pay a good chunk of tax and no one needed state benefits to top up their income. Lower welfare spending and higher tax revenue at the swish of a pen.

Small businesses employ local people , if they have to close them unemployment increases , this causes big problems in rural areas

And on this Annieb- I'll totally agree, for sure.

Conservatives are taking us to a future where robots and high tech will be much cheaper to employ than people. For now, many are relying on cheap labour- when labour is no longer cheap- they will invest in technology. There is no room in their new world for 'poor' or unskilled ... no room for them where only Share Holders and City money traders...

You may well reply that I am contradicting myself- and that a higher minimum wage will make it worse - and in many ways I'll agree- we live in a new World full of contraditctions and no space for anyone who is not part of that world- probably a huge section of the population. What then?

The world will become a very dangerous place ... again, and possibly worse. I grieve for our grandchildren and the world they are inheriting.

You might not like James- but please do listen to this caller- and his explanation re our unskilled workforce and how our situation is unique:
www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/the-man-branded-most-knowledgeable-caller/?utm_source=m.facebook.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=referral

Do read the comments below- even if to disagree- because they are very well put together and interesting.

Jura

" Conservatives are taking us to a future where robots and high tech will be much cheaper to employ than people. "

The Conservatives? Artificial Intelligence , AI, is a world wide issue for governments of all persuasions to have to deal with .

What or how do you think our government could hold AI at bay?

Do you think a Labour or Lib Dem government could halt what's coming down the line?

I haven’t been on this thread for some while, sad to read that GG is still stifling/ policing , correcting, others opinions.

So, Bridgeit the only reason you have come on this thread is to attack me - you haven't been on for some while and, by the look of it you haven't posted again after this post. Very nasty to just come on to have a go at someone personally, surely? I would have thought that was against GN rules.

GG can you be honest about your intentions here.

Day6 I was not being dishonest in any way. I picked up on the bits of the thread that interested me. Not all of it does but I don't expect to be accused of dishonesty for not following your personal rules.

I think that AI is the future (supposedly) and I'm not sure that I am very keen.
Perhaps it won't affect me and perhaps my DC and DGC will take an entirely different view of it.

although a robot that cleaned the oven would be nice.

I'd agree the future is AI and robotics Jalima & POGS but I'm super keen!
I totally agree with the lack of robot oven cleaners though.

Not exactly the future, it’s here already and has been for many years, particularly in the car industry.
Conservatives or Labour in power, no difference.

POGS I did say it is very complex. My point is- neither cons nor Labour will be able to hold AI off - but cons have everything to gain from it, and their shareholders too.

Not a fan of blogs when they tell people what to think, but I do think this is an excellent blog post from Nora Mulready who explains why she has left the Labour Party after 20 years. I think many of her reasons will resonate.

noramulready.com/2018/01/28/today-i-resigned-from-the-labour-party/

Totally Primrose, and unlike lemongrove, Day 6 and a few others here- I take absolutely NO pleasure in saying this.
I respect Corbyn, met a few times at rallies in the 80s - but Brexit will determine what happens to this country for a VERY long time, and the 'poor' and our grandchildren will be the ones to suffer the most. I can't allo my resepct for Corbyn to stand in the way- he has made his views clear.

Having watched Labours John Trickett on Sunday Politics I am finding the Labour position on the 20 / 1 pay ratio very muddled thinking. To be fair I have watched more than one Labour spokesperson getting in a muddle over this .

Surely if Labour believe there should be a 20 / 1 pay ratio and it is a ' principle' it should be across the board . Labour spokespersons have said if they were in government they would not sign contracts unles the company had a 20 / 1 pay ratio. When points are raised about the major pit falls that could conjure up it appears it wouldn't apply to say a contract with an overseas company, why the hell not?

It was interesting to see the divide over the subject of the NEC and Haringay Council and I don't think the subject will be going away as quickly as some would like.

Jura

" but cons have everything to gain from it, and their shareholders too."

Again I am sorry but I find that a tad twisted view .

Why specifically the Conservatives?

Yes, I thought that too POGS why not overseas companies?
Crazy to do it anyway, but if seen as a moral then it should apply to all.

Oh POGS, because they are the shareholders, the bankers, the traders, the big bosses- and NOT the workers and labourers that will end up with no job and nothing - no NHS or decent schools or social support. Surely it is rather obvious no?

It is not as though you didn't see what happened to miners, the steel workers, the car workers, and the rest from Thatcher onwards.

The Tories I know have top jobs, top private insurance, top houses and cars (many of them), top private schools for their kids, and have never come across social services either.
They have no idea what it is like to do without- at all.

Top salaries too - the likes of which are almost impossible to fathom (and yes, all my family and extended family).

The 20-1 pay ratio is an absolute joke.

Think of the IT services that national and local government use. (Pierre Nanterme, Accenture, $19m) Add on the NHS and schools. What would happen if the HMRC computer systems shut down? They couldn't even buy an iPhone! (Tim Cook $8 million)

No more sandwiches or biscuits from Waitrose at meetings (Charlie Mayfield is around 75x lowest salary) and I think they have the lowest ratio. Perhaps it will be a few carrot sticks from Jeremy's allotment when they're hosting world leaders for meetings.

Perhaps someone should ask them if they operate this policy in their private life?

the workers and labourers that will end up with no job and nothing - no NHS or decent schools or social support

Why will the NHS, schools etc disappear too? Perhaps it's a good idea for people to retrain and get new skills of needed, instead of striking for 20% pay rises like the car workers.

Who will maintain the robots?
Who will reconfigure the algorithms for the AI systems?
Who'll fit and maintain the airconditioning units in the server farms?
Who'll build the server farms?

Not the bosses, the bankers, the shareholders.

Jobs change. Look forward and keep your skills up to date and relevant. If you have no skills at all, I think you've always been in trouble.