Scotland -leased to the Scots

MaizieD Tue 12-Dec-17 13:55:44
The Darien Afffair! shock. Three hundred years ago?

Some folks bear very ancient grudges it seems.

Baggs Tue 12-Dec-17 15:29:32
Exactly, maiz.

Baggs, you were the first to mention the Darien Scheme in this thread, so which folks bearing ancient grudges do you mean?

There are those who are more are more than ready to light the blue touch paper.
Cherrytree, as a friend of ours used to say 'Light blue touch paper and retire' - he would give a stir with the proverbial wooden spoon then sit back and enjoy listening to everyone else arguing

Of course Scotland doesn't belong to England - we are all part of the UK.
But, as Baggs says, it will remain British for ever.

I do hope my Scottish friends haven't read this - we're going out with one lot for lunch this week and seeing another lot very soon.
Of course, being Scots from generations back but now living in England or Wales, they must be defectors or even traitors.
Oh dear.

Try this link for a brief look at both sides of the Darien Story:

www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofScotland/The-Darien-Scheme/

Just pointing out that England, contrary to some people's beliefs, did not annex Scotland. After the Darien Affair Scotland went cap in hand to England for financial aid as they were virtually bankrupt; that's how the Act of Union came into being.

Exactly, maiz.

The Darien Afffair! . Three hundred years ago?

Some folks bear very ancient grudges it seems.

thecatgrandma I most certainly do not 'hate' the English ( but might be persuaded to make one exception.)

Paddyann has a rational view which she has often discussed in
a perfectly calm and reasoned way.
It's fine to disagree with such an opinion but not to accuse those who think in a similar way of rabid anti-English hatred.

It seems that paddyann has a friend in thecatgrandma - equal and opposite in blinkered hatred! If they lock themselves in a room together for personal combat, perhaps they will cancel each other out and leave the field free for serious and calm discussion of pros and cons?

So by grousing
Mr/MS Beater has achieved his aim (on GN anyway)
To cause division that leads where ????

overthehills yes despair.
There are those who are more are more than ready to light the blue touch paper.

I do not know what motivated PaddyAnn to post this truculent piece from Grouse Beater. He is not my favourite pro Indy blogger by a long chalk, always downbeat and moaning (although he does maintain a good up to date list of 'What the Scottish Government has done for us' which is a useful reference tool).

Personally, I do not consider Scotland to be a colony but rather a partner in a very unequal partnership. All attempts to redress the power imbalance have/will fail due to the disparity in numbers between the voters/seats in parliament north and south of the border. It matters not whether Scotland returns mainly left of centre MPs or votes to remain in Europe or dispense with nuclear weapons, they will always be outvoted by sheer weight of numbers in the Westminster Parliament.

As I have said many, many times before I do NOT hate the English nor England, just as I do not hate Germany, France, Australia, etc, etc. I recognise that these are separate countries with different priorities and outlooks and celebrate those things we have in common, whilst respecting their right to do somethings differently to suit themselves.

All I want is for Scotland to be a Country/Nation in its own right, maintaining friendly relations with its neighbours near and far, but free to govern itself, stand on its own two feet, make choices based on what is best for Scotland and all who live here, have control of our own finances, instead of sending all revenues to Westminster and begging for some of it to come back.

PS Scottish Nationalism is CIVIC not ETHNIC Nationalism. 'The People of Scotland' includes all who have chosen to live here, irregardless of whether they choose to think of themselves primarily as Scots (by birth or residence) or something else.

Who cares about the Scots? No-one but the Scots, they hate us and the feeling is mutual.

Not being familiar with the work of the Grouse Beater, I have now formed a first impression.
Strikes me that he is no more representative of a typical,
* thinking* Scot than Britain First bloggers are representative of the UK at large.

Exactly Baggs! I think the Darien Affair gets conveniently forgotten with disgruntled Scots!
As for the Falklands and Gibraltar. Although some people may find it difficult to comprehend, both of these have voted overwhelmingly to remain Crown Colonies. No one is making them remain, it's entirely their own choice as it was with Scotland.

"Belong to England"? Really? I mean, has anyone really ever said that? After all, they don't belong to England so it would be innaccurate for a start. Wishing to remain British is not the same as Belong to England.

And, of course, Scotland would remain British even if it were not part of the UK because it is part of the British Isles. A good deal of it is also part of Great Britain where Great Britain means the largest of the British islands. Beats me why people always misinterpret the word great in that context and think it has some imperial political meaning.

Re Scotland's supposed annexation by England, I'm thinking the Darien affair that basically bankrupted Scotland so that it had to be bailed out.

Well paddyann have to say I totally agree with the piece in fact could hae written it myself . Alba gu brath !

I've read several threads about how Gibraltar and the Falklands BELONG to England ...nice to know you consider Scotland does too.I'm pro independence always have been ...and NOT in any way ANTI the "English" would just prefer MY country to be run BY us for US .The Grouse Beater Mcem ,writes a pro indy blog .I'll shuffle back to my "region" and not mention Scotland or Independence on here again !

Don't get me started on primary school places Petra my youngest 2 grandchildren have to travel miles to school every day. We have been through the trauma of 2 failed appeals for 2 separate primaries both of which are only a short walk of their home. The whole school admissions system needs a kick up the pants.

Who is the Grouse Beater and how can be claim to speak for Scotland when clearly be is expressing his own 'opinion'? Any credentials?

Cherrytree I’m Irish, living in Scotland, and this piece of writing makes me absolutely despair. This sort of divisive invective is rife in Scotland but no, Gillybob, we don’t hate the English and, as you say, we voted against independence “warts n all”.

As a scot with an English family
'This piece of writing' makes me very sad

As a Scot with (all be it small now) family in Scotland
'This piece of writing' makes me very sad

As a Scot with friends North and South of the border
'This piece of writing' makes me very sad

As someone who had Irish friends (north and south) during the troubles
'This piece of writing '
makes me very angry

lemongrove Just as well not all Scots are disgruntled and truculent (not even all those who would like independence)

What was the point in posting this? If it was to stir up anti-Scottish feeling then you’ve succeeded OP.

Another bit of divisive writing from a disgruntled Scot.

gillybob
Look on the bright side you still have some of your 'green and pleasant land' unlike here in the southeast corner where everything is being built on. And I don't think there's much hope of my GD going to the primary school that is 5 mins from her house, instead my daughter has a 30 min drive to get her to school.