Should parents take their children on holiday in term time?

And 'off on a training course' is 90% of the time held in school while teachers are drilled in the latest government directive they have chosen to foist on schools, an alteration to the curriculum, exams or some other idiot notion the powers that be want implemented.

I don't think anyone is "bashing" class teachers. I just suggest that those who do organise these events consider the effect on parents and the bad effect on parent/school relationships.

As a former governor of a comprehensive school, I do realise that some things can, and should be changed. A school and its pupils are more likely to thrive if the relationship between parents and teachers is nurtured.

Sounded like it to me and as a 'former governor' (aren't we all? ) you should have worded your post more diplomatically then.

Parents evenings are usually organised by timed appointments, so parents who can't get there earlier take the later times. These events start at 4 or 5 pm because the teachers are on the spot at that time, and if they went home it is quite likely that they couldn't get back by or 7 or 8 pm, or fit in the interviews with all the parents during the evening. They have already been speaking to children for eight hours or so, and believe me, after several hours more speaking to parents with no more sustenance than a grabbed sandwich, a late night is the last thing they need.

"more time to plan and mark, without the distraction of having to teach" You could put that the other way round - more time to teach without the distraction of planning and marking - as Gilly says "isn't "teaching" what "teachers" are paid to do?". Neither of them can be done at the same time time as the other, so the planning and marking are done at home or in the holidays, in all that "spare time" that teachers don't, after all, have.

But, to gilly again " a class full of children all taking "their week" at a different time. Imagine trying to keep up to date with the curriculum?" is exactly why parents are discouraged from taking their children away during the term.

I can only speak for the one school I know and that is my DGC's primary where very few children request time off during term time. Probably because most of the poor kids in my DGC's school wouldn't know what a "holiday" looked like at any time, term or otherwise. I think the system worked well when HT's had the final say. Now its all over the place with many refusing point blank with fines happily dished out (but the money doesn't go back to the school ) and others (in the same area) where HT's use their common sense and providing the request is not at a crucial time (just before exams etc.) and the child has a good attendance record then they are perfectly fine.

Many parents(such as my DS and DDiL)work normal jobs. You know those kind where you might start at 8 and finish at 4.30-5 ? or in the case of my DiL shifts like 6-2, 2-10 and night shift. Neither can just slip out of work "willy nilly". My DGC's school has appointments from 4.30 until 6pm and it is very rare that the days fall on the right shift patters for DDiL. Because of this, I tend to do a lot of the parents evenings, concerts and various other school events but it's not fair to assume that because I go (in place of a parent) that the parents don't care or can't be bothered when the exact opposite is the case.

The trouble is parents today are far too rich. Expecting to go away in the summer holidays is something they should give up while parenting. Sitting in all those traffic jams caused by everyone heading off at the same time is far too polluting and should be stopped anyway.

Think of the advantages. If each parent takes their holiday separately they would have enough to cover childcare without having to resort to the struggle of finding a place on a play scheme and they may even have a few days left over to take together since they'll not be taking so much time off to look after a child with a cold or sickie tum. (Can't loose the attendance record.) A trip to the local park or cinema should be enough of a treat. Yep, only those who can afford private education or home schooling should be allowed to go away on a family holiday. Just like in the old days.

Oooops meant to say my first paragraph was to Elegran

and my second to Anya

The trouble is parents today are far too rich. Expecting to go away in the summer holidays is something they should give up while parenting

Speak for the parents you know NfkDumpling

And mine was just being silly. This latest ruling has taken away all common sense or leeway. And I really couldn't believe it when I heard that a child late for school would be marked as absent. That's not true - is it?

But Gilly that is the logical conclusion. The majority of parents should not expect to be able to take their children away on holiday.

Have you seen the mark up on a Centreparcs break? How do they afford it?

My DGC are sometimes late for school NfkDumpling. They live miles away and lost appeals to get into a school closer to home. With the exception of Tuesdays and two weeks in every 4, they are forced to take 2 buses across town leaving the house at stupid o'clock. The first bus is often late (as it covers a long, rural route) meaning they miss the connection and are late for school. My DS and DDiL received a very nasty, threatening letter from the school attendance officer "warning" them of the consequences. I was FURIOUS and rang them only to be filled with the biggest load of cr*p you have ever heard including "they should get an earlier bus then" doesn't begin to cover it !

They are not marked absent but they are marked late and every lateness is reported to the Attendance Officers in the same way a child who does not attend at all. They refuse to take any reasons into consideration.

As I said in an earlier post NfkDumpling a family "holiday" does not always mean an expensive trip to Centreparcs or lying on beach in Spain. It can mean just a few days of quality time spent together as a family which sadly many children do not experience very often. A little "sleep in", a family breakfast, a BBQ in their own garden, a walk to the park, a visit to the local museum etc. All good quality family time.

Exactly. Parents should not expect to take their children away on holiday. Unless they can afford to home school (and the loss of one earner) or private education. They have no right to want to go abroad or to a holiday resort. Getting above their station. Whatever next!

I just think the system was working fine where the HT had the authority to advise parents according to what was happening in school, the child's attendance, where the holiday was to and how it would effect him/her. We used to take our lot camping in France. They learnt to read maps, speak a bit of French and see the reason for learning it, and a lot about geography, history and wildlife. A trip to Florida may be a once in a lifetime trip to a theme park but there's the Epcot Centre and loads of other stuff too.

I would be furious with the attendance officer too. Doesn't s/he have a superior to complain to? What are the 'consequences'? Surely it proves the need to change to a closer school when the opportunity arises?

What about having four terms as they do in Australia? No half term breaks, but two weeks every three months and a long holiday over the Christmas break (summer in this country, obviously).
Would that work better?

5 weeks at Christmas, 2 weeks in autumn, 2 weeks in winter, and 2 weeks in spring
With the 5 weeks in summer in the UK?

That is a total of 11 weeks in fact, compared to 13 weeks in the UK.

I think generally speaking, no. Much depends of course, on the age and stage of education of the child.

Trying to make it sound beneficial to the child is disingenuous in my opinion, because let's face it, the reason parents take children out of school for holidays is because the parents want a holiday and don't want to pay premium prices for it. Nothing to do with "oh the child learned so much about culture". Bullshine!!

I think if a parent takes a child out of school during term time, then it should be up to that parent to make sure the child is caught up with whatever work they have missed during the week/fortnight/however long it is, and not the class teacher, as that is detrimental to the whole class.

And the other thing is - I just hope these parents don't mind when the teacher, who happens to also be a parent, turns around and says "well, you know - we like to have holidays too, and we don't really want to pay premium prices either, so I am going to shuffle off on a nice holiday mid term, and your kids will just make to make do with whatever teacher they can find to fill my spot, and I'll catch up with the work when I'm back". Now I know teachers wouldn't/don't have that option, but the principle is there. Teachers, I am sure, would love the option to pay the lower out-of-high-season prices for holidays.

And when did it become a "right" for families to have a holiday?

Actually, HG I do know of teacher who did just that. Her DH had the opportunity of a business trip (Moscow I think) and the whole family went. The supply teacher was excellent!

Teachers at least get to spend their 13 weeks holiday with their children HurdyGurdy whether they holiday at home or away. Many parents have holidays dictated to them by their employers and they do not necessarily fit in with the school holidays. Also I think someone else mentioned up thread that most parents want their holidays with their children and those employers who don't operate a "shut down" have to limit how many people they can have away at one time.

A free school in Norwich has six terms separated by two week breaks except for August when it's four weeks. No homework. The school day is longer 8.00(?) to 6.00. And positively no time whatsoever off outside school holidays! But then, because they don't match the state schools that works for everyone.

My own 3 DC - 6 parents in full time work - only go away on average every three years apart from the eldest staying with us sometimes. They can't afford term time, let alone school holidays and generally camp. DD2 doesn't do camping so they stick to the UK in winter! DGD2 has never had a hot sunny holiday! So no, we don't consider it a 'right' to have a holiday, but shouldn't it be an opportunity?

gillybob That is a huge benefit for teachers and I totally appreciated it though my kids never quite saw it that way when I could never go to see them in their assemblies/ nativities etc. when they were little. I always sent a grandparent sub. or uncle but it was not quite the same!

I would also point out, that it is lovely {and lucky} to have 13 non-school weeks but teachers do work during school closures too! Of course it is easier to organise than in other jobs but believe me teachers are not spending 13 weeks with their feet up! My DD is in school today and tomorrow and I know works several evenings each week, even in the holidays, keeping records and assessments up to date.

Why isn't the local authority organising transport gillybob?

We are all experts on education - or are we?

When I mentioned that I was a former governor of a comprehensive school Anya responded "aren't we all ?"

Now I realise that this was probably intended as a sarky put-down, but in a sense I think she has hit the nail on the head.

We all know about schools. We have all been pupils and almost all of us have been parents and grandparents of pupils. Quite a lot of GNetters are or have been teachers. So we are all experts in education.

Perhaps if I told you I had been a school governor, a head teacher, an Ofsted inspector, a professor of education, or even the Education Minister in the government, you might think I knew more than the average person about education? (actually I haven't been all of these things)

I suspect it wouldn't matter one whit. We are all experts on education and we can all recount anecdotes about things that were right or wrong when we went to school, or our children and grandchildren went to school.

As our not-much-late-lamented former education minister Michael Gove has told us "the British people have had too much of experts"

We all know best.

This could never work GGM2

Holiday time both for students and staff to be reduced to six weeks can you see any teachers agreeing to this? 13 weeks reduced to 7. I don't think so.

Of course Gillybob you have been teaching for years and KNOW that that teachers take all 13 weeks as holidays. It's not my experience but you will obviously know better. Add to that the fact that they have one of the longest working week - but DM readers and the like wouldn't recognise that I know - they might just prefer something near to the working pattern others enjoy.

My daughter works for a private company. She's not a senior member of staff and has only been there a few months.

She has 26 days of annual leave every year, increasing to a maximum of 30 days after four years’ service PLUS bank holidays. You can even buy additional holidays or sell some of your holiday entitlement back.

She earns almost as much as a teacher after four years of service...and no work to do in the evenings, at weekends or on holiday!