V.A.T, in school fees

daphne - those schemes in the article you linked would, I guess, be caught by the "Tax Avoidance Disclosure" regulations - introduced in 2014 - I won't quote them all - the guidance runs to 166 pages As soon as people find loopholes HMRC tries to plug them.
The major advantage of company benefits lies in avoiding some NIC - also taking part of income as contribution to a pension pot instead of salary has tax advantages but again it's complex & a specialist issue and not for this thread or such a lovely sunny afternoon
As for overseas based people - it depends ..... private sector employees, Crown employees, Forces personnel, residency, domicile status, length of time abroad, tax payable overseas, Double Taxation Relief ... arrgh...
For most people - we don't have the worry of protecting all that dosh from HMRC - a modest income and our tax is just taken away via PAYE - and I'm happy with that - paying my share for our services.

PS. I would thank you to look at some facts!

Have a nice day!

Sorry, rafichagran, you really have fallen for media myths. It is nearly always well below £16,000. I know, because I've been there. I wasn't even affected by any benefit cuts and I received well below £16,000 for three of us.

Yes, I will say that 80% of people who can afford to send their children to independet schools are wealthy.

80% of households of children at independent schools have income greater than £50,000.

Only 10% of households in the UK have a total income greater than £50,000. Maybe our understanding of "wealthy" differs, but my view is that the top 10% should be considered wealthy.

The median household income after housing costs in the UK is just under £24,000. I do not accept that a household on median income could afford over £16,000 in school fees per child.

My take is that it's just one of a raft of ideas the current Labour Party will be announcing before the next election to increase taxes across the board and "soak the rich" (or at least those they consider to be rich). I don't think such policies have a great deal of support but we'll just have to wait and see.

I have not fallen for any media myths, with rent, council tax, ctc and other p assported benefits help, it is sometimes 16k sometimes more and somtimes less and he definatly was not wealthy according to some people's definition just hard working, and please do not say he is wealthy. He is not. I live in Greater London and trust me with rent and CT people do get more than 16k.I will thank you not to paronise me DD as I work long hours in a very hard job that deals with all sorts of people from different backgrounds so my knowledge is not limited to my personnel cucumstances or nievity. My partner went without for years and your stupid statement of wealthy just beggars belief.

The sixteen thousand is not the average, rates increase yearly , an eleven year old does not pay the same as a sixteen year old

PPS. The nutritional standards were tweaked in 2014, but had been in operation for many years before that.

trisher I haven't eaten many since 2014, but those I've eaten were just as bad! It's a bit different in primary schools, but secondary schools usually offer a self-service system. The nutritional guidelines state there must be healthy choices, but they can't force the pupils to choose them. Most schools offer some kind of dessert, such as iced buns, because they're cheap to make and profitable. I have watched so many pupils, especially girls, buy just an iced bun. They don't get fat, but they couldn't be called "nutritious". Others buy just a baked potato or a bowl of pasta (sometimes with a gloopy sugary tomato sauce), which are fine as part of a balanced diet, but not on their own.

PS. Apart from when I was doing supply teaching, I used to ask the cooks to make me a plain salad with an egg or slice of ham or fish, because the usual food was so awful.

I think you'll find that very few people receive more than £16,000 in benefits. I was unemployed for just under two years, as a single parent with two children, and I couldn't find any way of receiving £16,000. Believe me, I looked into everything. £16k isn't way below the median wage either. I'm afraid you've fallen for the tabloid myths!

I'm not criticising him for sending his son to an independent school, if he could afford it. He's free to do what he wants with his money, but please don't claim that he wasn't wealthy according to most people's definition. Sending a child to an independent school is not an option for the vast majority of people, however hard they work.

Hollycat re your post how could any government close down a small private school? If they are private surely there can be no state interference? I am intrigued.

DD 16k per annum is way below the average wage .Some people on benefits get more than that with HB CT, and passported benefits.
Like I said he lived in a bad area, he forfitted alot and went without, so that his son a young boy of West Indian parentagecould have the wonderful career he has got, and why should he not,If VAT was added he told me he would not have been able to afford it. Also people on the same salary as him did not send their children to fee paying schools they spent their money on other things. ( their Business and their choice)
Dianne Abbott whose son went to a fee paying school saying she would pay the VAT can afford to; others cannot. So bet away. Good on hardworkingparents who make that choice.

And some children do without food because their parents are on basic wages and rely on food banks to make ends meet. Shouldn't we feed children of hard working poor families?

As has been said some parents do without to pay for private education which is their choice, but they should not pay extra to fund other folks children's meals, some of which may have bigger in comes use state schools, and spend their money as they wish, which should include school meals for their child,

Anniebach I told you I've worked both. My parent's shop opened from 8 until 10.30pm so we did a 15 hour day. But it wasn't all work, you quite often sat around when customers were light. On the other hand when I was teaching you rarely sat down for more than 10mins so it was much more intense and harder work. I read all my English homework books when I was covering the shop. I took loads of stuff home to work on when I was teaching. And as I said the shop made more money.

Hollycat unless your local authority were different (and I don't think they were) free school meal were only available to children in state schools whose parents were out of work and yes the schools did open in the holidays but ONLY for these children. I remember asking why some children I knew were allowed to go to school for their dinners and my mum telling me their dads weren't working and they needed the help.
daphnedill School dinners did vary over the years which is why nutritional standards were introduced. Can I ask how any you have eaten since 2014? (See my last post for the link)
grannybuy there was a secondary school teacher on QT last night who spoke about the problems he had and said he would like to see the scheme extended to secondary schools.

I agree with you, grannybuy. Presumably those schools allow their pupils to leave the premises at lunchtime. Many don't. The problem is in some schools that they don't have the physical capacity for 1000+ pupils for an hour at lunchtime.

I once worked in a school, where the older pupils were allowed to leave. A new head banned lunch time leaving, but had to back down, because it was soon obvious that there was literally nowhere for the pupils to go.

Even when pupils have to remain in school, many of them choose the unhealthy options at lunch time. I seriously question whether school meals are "healthy".

Deviating slightly, I think concern should also be shown for secondary school children's performance in the afternoon. In town, nearby, and in so many others, the secondary pupils, and indeed many primary ones, converge on local shops and supermarkets. We lived, until recently, on the route between Tesco and secondary school, and the number who passed with a sweet drink and a packet of biscuits in hand worried me. Certainly, they had eaten, but I'm not sure if what they'd had would be performance enhancing.

There doesn't need to be a stigma attached to free school meals. Both my children received them for a few years. Schools now have swipe cards or touch technology, so that money can be loaded on to the cards. None of the pupils need to know where the money has come from.

There is no reason to add VAT to school fees, to me. Should that change (fine, we'll pay), who will determine what to use the VAT for (from school fees)? I don't see a direct connection between paying for the childrens schooling and VAT being used to supply meals - there is nothing tangible in place to make this scheme work.

How much were the school fees Hollycat? The average is now £16,000. I seriously don't think that a bus inspector and shop assistant could earn enough to pay school fees and rent (not to mention other bills and food) these days, however much they scrimped and saved.

PS. I went to a state primary school (as did my children) and we all visited museums, art galleries, etc. plus many other visits. Schools have changed since the 1940s.

Lillie, my grandchildren in year 1 receive the free school meals for that age group. The kitchens in their village primary school were ripped out in the Thatcher years but I am happy to report that they receive excellent, healthy school meals that are delivered to several schools in our large, rural county. Their are several choices for main course and dessert. Parents choose what the children want to eat in advance. My DGCs take a part in deciding.

I think it is an excellent idea. The charitable status of some of the richest public schools in the land has always irked me. Like any profit making organisation with a substantial turnover they should pay and charge vat. With free school meals for all there will be no stigma attached to those who have to apply for them, whilst ensuring that all have an opportunity to be well-nourished and therefore in a more suitable frame of mind to learn and to absorb what they are learning.

Here are some other ways to reduce school fees:

www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-2558653/The-5-sneaky-perfectly-legal-ways-Britains-richest-parents-cut-tax-bill-private-school-fees.html

Tax rules might have changed since 2014, so some of these methods might no longer work.

Thanks for the info about taxable income db and I stand corrected. Have school fees always been taxed? How does it work if an employee is based overseas?

Sorry. Riverbank,what I omitted to say is that the private schools have longer school holidays. For example, the Summer term ends around 14th July, which give you a chance to get a considerably cheaper holiday. Our local private schools have a week longer at Easter, Half terms and whit. In all they give 17 weeks holiday a year. This is because with small classes you get more into the kids in a shorter time.

I read that Mr. Platt who lost his appeal to take his child out of school for a holiday in Florida is comtemplating sending the child private. He will have no problem in getting a cheaper hol..

You're quite wrong there Beammeup - most Independent schools take a very dim view of absenteesim. I doubt if any such school of note would allow a trip to Disneyworld during term-time.