Brexit 3

Perhaps we are all old nags on here, Margaret may encounter younger fillies and colts in Yorkshire.

If you are interested ' The State of The Union Address ' is on t.v live on free view 131 from the EU Parliament.

As always it is interesting to watch the very different voices that speak for the 28 countries in the European Union. They certainly are not one voice.

There is a press release of what I think us the whole speech on the EU website.

From the horses mouth

" Europe needs to toughen up. Nowhere is this truer than in our defence policy.
Europe can no longer afford to piggy-back on the military might of others or let France alone defend its honour in Mali.
We have to take responsibility for protecting our interests and the European way of life.
Over the last decade, we have engaged in over 30 civilian and military EU missions from Africa to Afghanistan. But without a permanent structure we cannot act effectively. Urgent operations are delayed. We have separate headquarters for parallel missions, even when they happen in the same country or city. It is time we had a single headquarters for these operations.
We should also move towards common military assets, in some cases owned by the EU. And, of course, in full complementarity with NATO.
The business case is clear. The lack of cooperation in defence matters costs Europe between €25 billion and €100 billion per year, depending on the areas concerned. We could use that money for so much more.
It can be done. We are building a multinational fleet of air tankers. Let’s replicate this example.
For European defence to be strong, the European defence industry needs to innovate. That is why we will propose before the end of the year a European Defence Fund, to turbo boost research and innovation."

Question to those posters who have over various threads said the EU ARMY idea was a lie, a myth, stupid comment to make, do you still believe an EU Army is not being proposed. I use the words EU ARMY and not any other terminology that means exactly the same , as did many of the MEP's debating today during the 'State of The Union Address' and in many other debates in the past.

There is plenty of information to hear from the 'Horses Mouth' on Google re the ' State of The Union Address '. It's good viewing/reading.

The EU has put the fervent federalist MEP GUY VERHOFSTADT in post to negotiate Brexit. Ye gods. Verhofstadt will enjoy making negotiations as difficult as possible , I have watched and heard enough of him to know he has an ego as big as a house, detests any other MEP that does not agree with the EU policy of ' Ever Closer Union ' and Federal Europe. It is without doubt a telling sign of how the EU want the negotiations to go by choosing him. Very bad news.

I think you are being a bit hard on Verhofstadt - Farage has been extraordinarily rude to him over the years - that man has put the backs up of so many in the EU Parliament - not a good thing when we hope to get a good negotiation.
They have not said anything about forming an army - what he said was that the EU spends half the amount as the USA on military resources across all 27/28 countries but is only 14% as efficient - mainly because they are all repeating stuff. He mentioned co-operation between the countries to cut this down and make better use of the combined budgets. He did NOT suggest that they join together and make an army. I thought he sounded quite sensible - I also thought his press conference yesterday was well delivered and thought out.

Another headache for Brussels. The Swiss region of Ticio have announced that the are restricting the number of foreign workers. Businesses must offer a job to a Swiss worker first.
It's all going very well, isn't it? Austria is going to re-run it's general election because of dirty tricks to stop the far right winning.
Next month Hungary are having a referendum on how many refugees to let in.
The French are distributing the residents of Calais to about 1,000 camps around France. The euro isn't doing so well.
I think it's the eu that have problems, not us.

Petra I think its very short term thinking if you think that the EU being in trouble will not affect the UK.

Welsh wife

I call it an EU ARMY. You suggest in your post you heard Junker make his speech today, 'The State of The Union Address', so you will have heard MEP's call it an EU ARMY in the EU Parliament also.

As for Guy Verhofstadt I take no reference from his battles with Forage , I certainly do not rely on Forage and his antics for my information or understanding . I have seen Verhofstadt battle with any MEP from any country that does not comply with the Ever Closer Union mantra and the aim for a Federal Europe.

Like Forage Verhofstadt has a reputation, not the most liked MEP shall I ' politely ' put it. The fact he has been chosen as one of the negotiators tells me all I need to know how the EU will negotiate Brexit.

We will wait and see.

I understood what Juncker said was that when they were collaborating on any action there should be one Command post in charge so they were not all duplicating things.

A classic example of junker doublespeak.

I think you are being a bit hard on I think you are being a bit hard on Verhofstadt
possibly not hard enough POGS

I like the new name for junker: drunker junker.
I've just read these quotes on Twitter.
Do you remember the last military force that tried to unify Europe
And Is Poland the first place you will invade with your army
It seems a lot of people are taking this seriously, so they should.

Daphne, about Concentrix; there was a debate today, and the government decided not to have an enquiry into it.
They have said they will not renew the contract, but that lasts for another 7 months.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/14/treasury-refuses-to-hold-inquiry-into-concentrix-tax-credits-contract

How do they get away with it? What hold do they have over the government?
If any employee made such a mess whatever the contract they would be sacked immediately.

Straight from the horses mouth ( news this lunchtime from merkel )
"Europe is in a criticle condition" We know that polititions hide the bad news, so how bad is it really when the head honcho announces this situation.
And we keep being told that we have problems.

But what's that supposed to mean, petra?
Europe's in a critical condition because of Brexit?

No. Merkel and Co. realise that the EU has many flaws which need to be addressed and which contributed to the UK votig to leave.

If you had read the news articles on various websites (as I did, after reading petra's post) you wouldn't need to ask that question.

Guy Verhofstadt is a very nice man I have known him for years.
Farage finally turning up and making inflammatory speeches in the Parliament is not exactly doing the UK any favours looking forward to the brexit negotiations. He should be reigned in and allow the real politicians to get on with it.

Donald Tusk has asked all eu leaders to come up with an * honest* assessment of what is wrong with the eu.
Call me stupid if you want, but brexiters are continually being told that we are stupid for wanting to leave such a wonderful, prosperous etc etc organisation. But now one of the top men is asking for recommendations on how to put it right. Why fix something that isn't broken?
He also said that they should strike a not of caution over plans drawn up by drunker junker for an eu army. Would that be the army that most brexiters knew was in the pipeline?

Felice There were certain leaders of a certain country who loved their wives/ children/ dogs. That didn't make them ' nice men.' And as we know, they had another much darker side to them.

Petra I would be careful making accusations on an open forum, I assume you are au fait with Belgian politics it makes the UK look simple.
I do not know what you are accusing Guy of perhaps you could clarify instead of using innuendo.
Please remember which country he is from, this country and it's citizens suffered and fought more than many people on here will ever even imagine.
Do be careful who you accuse with your nasty asides.

felice

Guy Verhofstadt has made his view well known over Brexit and some posters will have watched his interactions, debating style in the European Parliament. I am sure you too are well aware of his personality if you are friends but we may view things differently as we come from a different starting point.

Verhofstadt has said the following

"Britain has chosen isolation in Europe, against the advice of its friends and allies. Now that its post-imperial DECLINE is complete, the most important lesson to take away from the “Brexit” referendum that sealed its fate is that one cannot defeat nationalism by pandering to nationalists."

" The United Kingdom’s citizens voted to leave, and its political leaders insist that they will respect the referendum’s outcome, so it is not “punishment” to insist that they do so as soon as possible. If British inaction causes Europe to continue to suffer economically from political uncertainty, a ' FULL SEPERATION ' should be carried out ' UNILATERALLY'."

" Politically, the UK is already on its way to becoming an ADVERSARY , rather than a trusted partner, of the EU."

" MAY actually opposed Brexit. Yet her 'ANTI-EUROPE HOSTILITY ' differs only in degree, not in kind, from that of pro-Brexit politicians, such as Daniel Hannan, a Conservative MEP, and Nigel Farage, the leader of the UK Independence Party, who rejoice at the possibility of additional exit referenda across the EU."

" Fortunately, post-Brexit contagion has so far failed to materialize, most likely thanks to the '. EMBARRASSING PUBLIC SPECTACLE' that the UK has become since June 23".

These are but a few of the thoughts of Verhofstadt concerning Brexit , The UK and our Prime Minister. With preconceived thoughts such as those I do not believe Verhofstadt will prove to be mouth piece/good negotiator.

He has an affirmed position on what he considers should/could happen e.g he states in just this one article the possibility of a 'Unilateral separation' could/should be imposed if it suits the EU. He says the UK Prime Minister, Theresa May, has an 'Anti Europe Hostility' toward the EU. To my mind Verhofstadt , unlike many other MEP's that could have been chosen, has made such views quite clear in the EU Parliament and has been chosen because of them. He might still be a very nice friend/man however.

www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/post-brexit-eu-structural-reforms-by-guy-verhofstadt-2016-07

There is a lot which needs changing within the EU. I don't think you'll find many sensible people in Europe would disagree with that. Many of those of us who wanted to stay in the EU hoped that the UK could have helped to reshape and regain the original concept of the EU - a stable Europe which would never again engage the world in armed conflict.
Unfortunately, even before he became PL, David Cameron decided he was going to abandon the traditional allies of the Tory party within the EU and formed coalitions with more extreme factions. This has resulted in the UK becoming more and more isolated and having less and less influence over the years. This is both our and the EU's tragedy

The Uk is not seen with much regard in the rest of Europe, on a recent Dutch Satirical Radio show, I heard someone say that 'they have finally squatted the Mosquito'. The Uk with it's constant pleading for special needs had just got on a lot of peoples nerves.
All Eu countries have their problems with the administration of the Eu, but most try to get on with it.
Britain is not an Empire and brexit is not going to bring back the slave trade and the Uk will I hope not be on a colonising mission.
I was horrified to read in the papers earlier this week of two racist attacks on Scots in England. one a man wearing a kilt who was attacked by a gang of youths in a village and two men, one a serving Police officer who were walking in York and attacked by a man shouting 'go back to f***ing Scotland',
What is going on, the English begged Scotland to remain in the UK now we are being villified.
Perhaps Guy Verhofstad is the only one prepared to do the job as he does have views on the UK !!!!

I meant to say my SO had seen a news report on Flemish TV about the attacks called me and I checked on the news sites, only to be found in the Scottish papers.