Looks like it could soon be 'RIP the NHS'?

Being saying this for years, Alie, but it's called scaremongering.
On the news this morning they said that 44 areas will be doing it, and someone said it doesn't save money as patients just go along to the next hospital.
What that person did not realise is that there are only going to be 44 areas. They all have had to put in their plans for saving, which include closing wards, and GPs reducing what they cover.

It's depressing that it came out when it did, but that was ib the plan as well. Do it all while MPs are on holiday and bothered about leadership contests, and it'll be a fait accompli when parliament is back to normal.

Next month there are junior doctors taking Hunt to court over their contract. Haven't seen much of that in the news either.

In the meantime, loads of people on gransnet say that the NHS was okay for me and my family when we last used it. So that makes it okay.

This is what it's all about.

www.opendemocracy.net/ournhs/john-lister/is-new-collaboration-in-nhs-merely-way-to-make-cuts

this government has killed the NHS. A slow and deliberate plan

Nothing can be done to stop them , we can riot in the streets they will still go ahead

What is Theresa May's stance on this?
What are other parties's stance.

No party is prepared to fix it?
Are the debts too large?

Sorry, no one has to answer. I have only questions, no answers of a human nature.

Can we as individuals afford health insurance!? What about pre-existing conditions? How are we to afford to get stuff done that the NHS can no longer afford?

Saga quoted me £300+ a month that's without cover of pre existing conditions

Personally i'd be happy to pay as much as £10 extra for national insurance and get a good NHS service.

£10 extra would be enormous amount overall and our health service would be superb!

In Switzerland, as an example of how it could be done (and I am a fervent and total believer in the NHS) - health insurance is compulsory- but provided by a vast number of private companies, with different rates.

They cannot refuse anyone for health reasons, disability, pre-existing conditions, etc- for basic insurance- which covers all health care. People can choose to pay for supplementary insurance for private room, choosing your own surgeon and hospital, etc. Insurance premiums vary- and each offer you a different price depending on the 'franchise' you choose- eg the first bit you have to pay yourself- and you can change that on yearly basis. So a young person in perfect health will choose a smaller premium, but a higher franchise (eg they would have to pay the first 200 per year, or 300- or 2000)- wherease someone with health problems may choose a higher premium but a very low franchise. Then everyone has to pay 10 % of claims per year- up to a certain level.

If people cannot afford health insurance, it will be subsidised by the State or even totally paid for.

It is not like Bupa, Spire or Nuffield- who pick and choose what they will or will not cover- eg pick the low risks and leave the rest to the NHS- then fall back on NHS if things go wrong .

gran I can remember being quite impressed with the Swiss model when looking at the alternatives. We so need a national conversation about this. The trouble is and what i am fearful about is that the vested interests are very powerful and have many powerful politicians ears and support. This can't be allowed to be another Brexit with lies and media deciding how we decide what is best for us. I am so frightened that the American model will be argued for.

www.opendemocracy.net/ournhs/rob-poole/ministry-of-fear

While we are talking about health insurance, the Tories are selling off the nhs.
Why can we do nothing about it?
What a defeatist attitude.
Both sides of the Labour Party are in agreement over the NHS.
Even some Tories disagree with what is going on.
There have been a few debates in parliament before this on the NHS. The next one should get through.

www.opendemocracy.net/ournhs/caroline-molloy/labour-mp-brings-bill-to-parliament-to-stop-nhs-privatisation

nhap.org/the-announcement-of-planned-cuts-is-not-a-sudden-crisis-today/

nhap.org/dr-louise-irvine-the-national-health-action-nha-party-executive-says-patients-should-be-aware-of-some-of-doctalys-small-print/

nhap.org/dr-paul-hobday-leader-of-the-national-health-action-party-says-that-we-need-action-now-to-save-the-nhs-what-will-be-left-to-renationalise-in-a-couple-of-years-time-wont-be/

Join the NHA.

'Doctaly, a service which allows patients to book and pay for a 15-minute appointment with a GP – who primarily works on the NHS – at a local practice for £40 online, is set to officially launch at the end of August. Its creators argue services like Doctaly are needed because of the excessive waiting times a lot of patients have to endure to see their regular NHS GP. Although GPs and patients who have already used the service praise it, critics have said the it is “privatisation of the worst kind".'

inews.co.uk/essentials/news/technology/doctaly-app-lets-see-gp-within-30-minutes-saviour-route-nhs-privatisation/

This is going to happen at the end of the month.
It's privatisation of the GP service. Completely wrong.

Is it happening everywhere?

If so why haven't we been told?

I think demonstrations on the scale of the poll tax opposition - hopefully without the riots - are needed.

I agree with whitewave 100% that we need a national conversation. The bottom line is that more money is needed and we need to stop allowing a profit motive. The question is, of course, who will pay this extra money. Personally, I'm in favour of increased taxes and/or everybody paying ring-fenced NI rather than a 'pay as you go' or commercial insurance scheme.

People have been duped into thinking that efficiency savings can be made, but we've seen that these more often or not lead to unintended consequences, such as bed blocking.

Every first world country spends more per head than the NHS does. I wonder if the people who think the NHS is inefficient think that these countries are inefficient too.

I saw ads for Doctaly in a local paper, so I think it is national. I also know that two of my local GPs have set up a private practice (weekdays only). The cost for a half hour appointment is £70 with recommended tests, prescriptions, etc extra.

So the argument us that GPs are under too much pressure, and as a result the waiting times are lengthy. So can someone tell me please how being able to book a 15 minute consultancy with a NHS gp takes the pressure off?. Or is it simply turning its back on fair access for all regardless of the ability to pay?

www.theguardian.com/society/2016/aug/26/what-do-you-know-about-planned-nhs-cuts

These show some of the cuts in some areas. Not all the transformation plans have been published.

If you want to save the NHS, join a likeminded group, the NHAP, or Keep our NHS Public, etc., or 38 degrees.
Talking about it on Gransnet does no good. How many people are there on gransnet? Not enough to make any difference.
While you are discussing whether you can afford to pay £10 or £20 a month, it will have happened.

It's only six years ago since we were told there would be no top down reorganisation. This is the third one, and the biggest.
The NHS is not being allowed to sort out one big change before the next one comes along, in order to completely disorientate those involved.

Petition urgently needed for national conversation. Without any lies. We want and deserve total honesty. How can it be done? How can we trust forwhat passes as politicians? Should they be kept out of the loop?

I am so supportive of keeping the politicians at arms length with regard to our health system

It doesn't take the pressure off - that's a con. From what I understand, many of the GPs providing the service only work part-time. Many of them are women with children, who can now work freelance and organise work around family commitments. If they can earn a living from this kind of work without all the hassle (paperwork, targets, 24/7 service, etc) of being a GP partner, many of them will probably end up not working for NHS GP practices, thus exacerbating the shortage of GPs.

Why haven't they told us, whitewave?
Because they want to keep us in the dark.

What was the last big NHS problem? 24/7 hours in hospitals, which was happening anyway, but Hunt said it wasn't and tried to separate the junior doctors from the public.
While all that was happening, the transformation plans were being done in the background.

Some of us knew about them, some of us said so on other threads, but it was all ignored.
Every time I mentioned the NHA I was laughed at.
The NHA is made up of professional healthcare workers. They were laughed at.
Everything they said is coming true.

Why aren't people marching, petioning etc? This is being managed very well by the vested interests

We are being taken for fools once again.

dj I have joined, but I am very worried as nothing effective seems to be happening

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/124340

Government e petition to debate the bill fully in parliament.