Who said immigrants have to go back?

@thatbags

I really don't understand how you can say that the undecideds are the most educated on a given subject.

Don't be silly, ww. Again.

I didn't say I wouldn't turn to experts in whatever field. I simply described my experience with ones I've met and known quite well. Where facts are truly facts there isn't a problem but even in the subject areas you mention not all experts agree about what is the 'right' or best approach. Plus, also in those examples, what else will be affected has to be considered and sometimes even experts get wrong what they think effects will be on other species.

I said I sometimes think the undecideds are the most educated because I suspect that sometimes, the more one knows about a thing the less absolute one feels one's knowledge is when practical considerations and possible fall outs are taken into account.

Saying "sometimes I think" is expressing an mere opinion, not stating something absolutely factual.

And I can say "sometimes I think" something because that is the exact truth and I know the words with which to do it. Stop being so literal! So wanting a right or wrong. There's mud in the middle!

SO TO SPEAK!

Does nobody else read essays and stuff about various topics in which the writer looks at both or even multiple sides of a question so that at the end their conclusion is 'muddy', uncertain, undecided?

Yes, I do thatbags, my degree necessitated critical analysis of nursing papers.....and I hate to think how tortuous some were!

Thatbags please listen to experts when they have hard and fast expertese and present you with facts.

If we were faced with a ticking bomb and we had a bomb dosposal expert standing by would it not be better to let him difuse the bomb rather than have a show of hands to decide ehether to cut the blue wire or the green wire?

Can't read through all that. I must be getting obie disease.
However, I think this might interest some of you.

"Medium-term growth will also likely be weaker due to less favourable terms for exports to the EU, lower immigration and a reduction in foreign direct investment."

That's why Fitch has given the UK a lower credit rating, because we do not want immigrants, and many of them are going to leave.
Some experts did tell us that might happen, but those who do not listen to experts said we would be okay and were financially sound - and were listened to.
Sorry if it's been put on another thread already.

varian, please don't advise me to do something I've never said I wouldn't do! Which, in fact, I said I would do!

It's got to be deliberate, this constant misunderstanding, this constant making something mean what it doesn't say or even imply!

One wonders why

Perhaps you should be more straightforward, bags, in saying what you mean.

thatbags, I worked out about 3 weeks ago, that 'this constant misunderstanding, this constant making something mean what it doesn't say or even imply' is utterly deiberate, and they[about 8 of them] know exactly what they are doing and saying and why.

I've a feeling that loopy understands what I've just been saying. I've also a feeling that people who don't start by assuming I'm saying something that contradicts them, or that they won't like, usually understand me too. And those people will also just ask me to clarify anything that isn't clear to them rather than immediately jumping to the wrong conclusion.

I wasn't contradicting anyone or arguing with anyone when I talked about expert uncertainty. I was adding a neutral piece of experiential information.

Or, sorry, neutrality isn't allowed. One has to take sides.

Idiocy.

I understand what bags is saying. Sometimes there is no black or white. You can study a thing carefully and still come to the conclusion...that here is no definite conclusion.

there is not here is

I've just come back from Tesco and returned to the thread.

What a lot of people read into a post the exact opposite of what the poster said!

What a lot of people are convinced that they are going to disagree, so they do, whatever the actual post says!

If there were no middle ground, there would be a lot fewer problems in the world! Everything would be instantly recognisable to all as right or wrong, and no-one would need to apply their brains at all! what a lot of time and agony would be saved. All would be for the best, in the best of all possible worlds.

Perhaps we should appoint one world High Dictator, who made incontrovertible rulings on everything, and anyone who discovered evidence of anything different had their mind wiped clean of such notions and their existence expunged from the official records. We could call them a non-person. We could call the High Dictator Big Brother.

Jehovah?

Why not call Jehovah 'Allah' and let ISIS establish a world caliphate?

Indeed

Newcastle on Friday. EDL, North East Infidels () and the National Front.

Oh dear! I don't think your High Dictator idea is going to work out too well. There's dissent already.

Re that thing about the overuse of the term 'racist', this tweet by Steven Gonder explains what MrB was arguing in one word: reductionist, the (sometimes ridiculous) attempt to explain a complex phenomenon (in this case, voting to come out of the EU) in terms of something simpler.

Just as well, dd Big Brother would have consigned all of Gransnet to being non-persons by now - not a single one hardly any would have conformed to the Ultimate Diktat.

Hardly any have even recognised the allusions in my post and given a wry smile .

Kim Jong-un.

Mao Tsi Tung.

Been done already Elegran.