Corbyn and No Confidence

DJ

I understand that but the outcome of being incapable of adding anything constructive , talking to anybody outside of his bubble means he is not talking to anybody beyond his core voter.

Corbyn throughout the referendum debate has refused to speak to anyone from the media spontaneously, of course you could say his performance on The Last Leg t.v program was perhaps the closest he came to it. Corbyn has refused to debate on camera unless it was with his core voter or under 30's , a fact that not many have missed.

He may well have put himself about from north to south but he always is surrounded by his own people, they shield him, they applaud him, they woop him and people are not fooled.

I agree this is not just a Corbyn thing but it is without a doubt prevalent in the Corbyn camp and to be honest watching the few times he has engaged with the media or given a speech he comes over as nothing more than a 'voice of protest' and not in a way that reaches out to those who are not in his circle, his core voting group.

I know Corbyn and his followers believe him to be a 'breath of fresh air' and opposition to the New Labour Years. Well I voted for New Labour and so did a lot of others hence Labour were in power. Corbyn simply does not reach out beyond his bubble , he will not let people see any other side to him , he refuses to engage with anything that could be remotely outside of his comfort zone.

Yes I voted conservative last time, everybody knows that but activist/member I am most certainly not. However I think the government of any colour needs a good opposition and I don't see nor hear it in Corbyn and I think the proof is in the referendum results.

How do you work out he's lazy? Not many 67 year olds can do his job and work down the allotment.

Whatever happens to the Labour leadership, I think that Labour and indeed the Tories have a much bigger problem in that they no longer "fit" with the electorates needs and fears.

There needs to be a fundamental rethink about what the parties stand for, their electorate and reforming into something representing the population

The must talk about immigration made me smile.
Too late, much too late

M0nica I didn't mean to imply the media were singling out anyone.

Sports Direct has given a profit warning today, and yet it was interested in rescuing BHS. Can't see that happening now.

I didnt think I had heard some of what Corbyn said this morning[I didnt listen to all of it].
I thought he should have said all of it before, many times.

A thought has occured. Is it possible that he is at heart, a bit lazy .And that eould explain his lacklustre performance pre the referendum?
Or he only gets enthused about certain topics, and the EU topic didn't enthuse him much?

POGS, the usual mantra is quite important to Labour party members and why he was chosen as leader in the first place.

Trust you Anniebach.

My post was being fair to Corbyn in the context I didn't have the opportunity to hear him speak.!

They a?ways 'cut off ' speeches and I too find it annoying.

No POGS, it wasn't fair, I would say the same if a leader of any on the main parties were making a speech , labour has members throughout the UK, SNP in one country

To be fair cut off the Q & A time .

Corbyn who is leader of the official oposition was making a speech this morning televised on the BBC, suddenly the speech was cut into for an announcement from the SNP , this is wrong but typical of the beeb

Started ' as always with anti Tory rhetoric , another Labour Party husting to start with.

" We must ' start' to talk about immigration"

He talked , again, of the Posted Workers Directive, it must be stopped.

POGS Thu 23-Jun-16 10:14:33
Going back to 'the builder" and cheaper employment for EU citizens it is probably , like a lot of companies use, to do with the fact the EU HAS CREATED SUCH A SHAMBOLIC CASE for employers to obtain 'cheap labour' through the 'POSTING OF WORKERS DIRECTIVE'.

'Currently, posted workers are already subject to the same rules as host Member State employees in certain fields, such as health and safety. However, the employer is not obliged to pay a posted worker more than the minimum rate of pay set by the host country. This can create wage differences between posted and local workers and potentially lead to unfair competition between companies. This means that posted workers are often remunerated less than other workers for the same job'.i

Corbyn has been giving the impression during his speeches to stay and fight from within the EU for Workers Rights and has indeed mentioned the Posting of Workers Directive on numerous occassions, he says we will stop this by being stronger working together 'from within the EU'but in fact there are already moves to 'Reform the Posting of Workers Directive' anyway and the link of 8th March details this.

'From now on, all the rules on remuneration that are applied generally to local workers will also have to be granted to posted workers. Remuneration will not only include the minimum rates of pay, but also other elements such as bonuses or allowances where applicable. Member States will be required to specify in a transparent way the different elements of how remuneration is composed on their territory. Rules set by law or universally applicable collective agreements become mandatory for posted workers in all economic sectors. The proposal also gives the possibility to Member States to provide that subcontractors need to grant their workers the same pay as the main contractor. Nevertheless this can only be done in a non-discriminatory way: the same rule must apply to national and cross-border subcontractors.
The proposal will also ensure that national rules on temporary agency work apply when agencies established abroad post workers.
Finally, if the duration of posting exceeds 24 months, the labour law conditions of the host Member States will have to be applied, where this is favourable to the posted worker.
These changes will provide better protection for workers, more transparency and legal certainty and ensure a level playing field between domestic and posting firms while in full respect of Member States' wage-bargaining systems.'

europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-16-466_en.htm

Then back to a Labour party husting . There was nothing of any substance , it has all been said before except for Labour must start to talk about immigration, everything else was the usual mantra, zero hours, Sports Direct etc. etc.

Cut him off to hear from Sturgeon.

Anybody listening to his speech on the news channels , now!

Do any labour heartlands still exist? The days of whole areas turning out to vote en masse for one party have long gone and will not return.

Labour needs to realise that to win votes you need policies that appeal to the wider electorate not just the party activists. I am no Blair/Brown supporter, certainly never voted for them, but that is what they did realise and why Labour was in power from 1997 to 2010. It was unfortunate that both had such deeply flawed personalities that, in power, they exercised their responsibilities so badly.

If there's a new leader, it needs to be somebody who can get the Labour heartlands voting Labour again. It doesn't really matter about people like me (unless we have some form of PR) because my vote will never matter anyway.

If there is a new leader for the Labour Party it will need to be someone who didn't turn against Corbyn when he was elected and who has much support in the party ,

Not Tristram

Tristram Hunt anybody? Parachuted in to a constituency near here in 2010 to await the glittering prizes. Just a thought......

David Cameron has also been pretty heavily chriticised and lampooned by the press, the ignorant rich posh boy who doesnt know how other people live.

If you go into politics and reach any level of recognition you are going to be criticised, lampooned, your views misrepresented and your personal life forensically investigated. Not very nice, but if you cannot cope with it, politics is not the career for you.

There is nothing new about this, look at the cartoons artists like Rowlandson and others were getting published in the early 19th century, the scurrilous tales of the great and good (?) published in papers then.

A new leader of a party may well espouse a new form of leadership, but self-effacing modesty, and Corbyn has much to be modest about is not, and never has been an effective leadership style.

Corbyn is the Labour leader the Conservative Party wanted.

I agree with you about the dangers of having no effective opposition M0nica. And what worries me the most after the referendum is every piece of legislation driven legislation members now has to be reviewed and either replaced, amended or repealed. The government has the opportunity to lower the standard of laws and if this looks likely, I want the opposition parties to fight against it, not fight amongst each other.

daphne Ed Miliband was a target for the media from day one and it was such a shame that someone with the right idea should be ridiculed like that. The same thing has happened with Jeremy Corbyn. The media will always look for weaknesses, so the leader needs to be delivering results that raise him/her above media attention.

I think Ed Miliband had a lot of good things to say. For example, he did understand Keynesian economics and he had some good ideas. His trouble was that he was hounded by the press for looking like a cartoon character and used about a thousand words when he could have used half a dozen. He never came out with snappy soundbites like Blair did. I think it's a shame he's gone to the back benches, although he does seem much happier as a person.

There are some good Labour MPs in the wings, but we don't see much of them. Keir Starmer is one. He has an excellent understanding of 'management' and knows that you need to persuade people and listen to them rather than tell them what to do or what's best for them. He's also untainted by Blairism. There are others, such as Dan Jarvis. He has the common touch as an ex-SAS officer, but he doesn't perform very well in interviews. I think there could be a place for Gisela Stuart. I don't agree with her over the EU, but at least she argued her case rationally and without resorting to lies. I'd also like to see a place in a coalition cabinet for Caroline Lucas.

As a not natural Labour voter, I could be persuaded by a good team, which challenged the Conservatives effectively.

dj I couldn't tell you what any of the Labour Party policies are and that speaks volumes. I read the news online several times a day, so why don't I know? If I don't know, what about the people who perhaps only watch the 6 o'clock or 10 o'clock news? The message is not getting across. Please don't misunderstand me, I think Corbyn is a fine man and MP, but he's not doing a good job as party leader in the current climate.

M0nica David is the one with the white streak in his hair.

I cannot see what relevance anyone's political allegance or voting record has to this thread. Indeed the fact that any poster could pose the question to another poster, with the suggestion that the validity of her remarks depended on her voting record is to my mind a form of political coercion.

I have neve voted for either major party, although at times I have come close to it. However this does not mean that I cannot have hoped that a new and very different leader for one of these parties is a good thing for the body politic and find it a cause for concern when this elected leader, or any other fails to show the leaderships skills so essential in the job.

We currently have a socially divisive and polemical party governing the country without any effective opposition from the main opposition party. This is bad for democracy and bad for good governance.

This why, without ever voting labour, I hoped Jeremy Corbyn could bring some thing new and mould breaking to parliament and politics and why I have been so disturbed by his inability to rise to the challenge.