Corbyn and No Confidence

Thought he may have to go. I'm a Tory but even I think he is a liability for the Labour party. Most certainly don't go into politics without a thick skin. E tu Brute.

add the t please! Long day. Fat fingers!

Sorry, just thought of something else. Totally unfounded, but a theory, I do wonder sometimes (and have thought this for a while) whether someone 'expendable' gets voted in after a long, successful, but 'run it's course and people want change', government. Knowing they haven't got a hope in hell of winning an election for a while anyway; meanwhile in the background, they're primping up the next rising star. Totally unfounded and probably silly, hmmm.

Of course they are. That is the secret of a successful revolution and yes, a leader is only as successful as the Generals standing behind him. Where would Churchill have been without Montgomery, Slim and Wavell? Mrs Thatcher was beaten when her generals walked out on her.

One of the problems is the lack of rising stars breeze. I don't believe JC can win an election believe he is a good leader. He's been a good and principled back bench MP but I don't believe he has the qualities necessary to lead a political party.

Just surprised it took so long!!

breeze I think you are very right, that is what happens. John Major was the exception to the rule. He was meant to be expendable but won an election.

Sometimes we have to have two or three such 'leaders' (Hague, Duncan-Smith, and Howard) before the party is 'cleansed' and someone untouched by previous failures (because he/she was too young, not an MP) can take over. That is why in the last leadership election, the Tories rejected Davis and elected Cameron.

It also depends on how 'poisoned' the party is seen to be. I think both Mrs Thatcher and Tony Blair/Gordon Brown left very long dark shadows over their parties. It took the Tories 13 years to recover and even then they had to govern in coalition with another party for 5 years.

I think Labour will be the same. They need at least one more disposable leader and at least another Parliamentary cycle after this one before they can form a credible government.

Gesela Stuart for leader of the Labour Party. If they put her name up she would wipe the floor with the rest of them.

I wonder if it will take that long, though; they have had two 'disposable' leaders and one PM who was not really challenged for leadership after Blair resigned.

In which case, you will not get a vote on it, breeze.

I based my suggestion on the experience of the Conservatives. I can see no reason why the Labour party should be different.

However competent Gisela Stewart, she has ties to, and held office under the old regime. A new potential leader could have come in to parliament in 2015, but they are unlikely to be noted, selected and elected before the next parliament.

I hope he isn't ousted to be honest.

I stand by my post at 03.53 this morning.

"Labour have not been listening . I know Corbyn is highly respected by some but it is said , again by some, Labour haven't had a look in with the media and haven't got their case for remain over. Labour haven't got it's case for remain over because Corbyn has been weak, weak , weak. He has elected not to debate , unless it is with his core supporters in attendence or the under 30's on Sky. He went on The Last Leg and admitted his support for the EU was 7.1/2 out of 10. He has said so much against the EU he has actually been a candidate for the Leave Campaign. He has looked like a man who has been scared to get stuck in and chose to take the easy route with only his cronies getting near him

Labour have not been listening to what the working class have been saying. Labour have concentrated on Climate Change and Workers Protection as reasons to Remain. The problem is Corbyn has been saying about protection for all Europeans but he has lost the ear of those in the UK who know from experience the EU has not been good for those who vote for Labour and see EU workers undercutting their wages, seeing jobs moved to other EU countries because the EU has paid for this to happen.

The rhetoric from Remain calling people racist/xenophic has been negative for Labour especially. The working man does not appreciate the likes of Geldoff targeting working class fishermen. Labour are in a Westminster , London centric bubble and you are seeing the Labour vote has ignored the call to unite behind Remain because it is disconnected from it's leadership. People are showing they are fed up with a political elite who are not listening , they are not as thick as some people would believe but they know what is happening all around them and they want less beaurocracy and feel there is genuinely too much interference from the European Parliament /Commission and Court.

Time will tell but I truly believe there are more voices calling for him to stand down than just the Parliamentary MP's from the left of politics.

He does seem quite an ineffectual little man. Although he's quite sweet. Maybe he couldn't make any more of a cock up things than the rest of them in any of the parties.

I think Labour are starting to make the mistake of not listening, and perhaps worse, not "being" like the people they represent.

Tories can get away with it. A potential tory voter doesn't mind too much if teir MPs are rather wealthy/been to public school etc, but it just doesnt work so well if you are a Labour MP.

You can get away with it slightly if you have at least been brought up in the area you represent, but you are still seen as different.

Celebrities getting their two penneth in - ridiculous.

Although he's quite sweet
sweet is not a term I would use about him!

I just wondered if he was embarrassed to be seen and heard campaigning for the Remain vote because of his Eurosceptism throughout his career, and wondering if the media would have a field day with it.

I wonder how many people who were wavering looked at Geldof and his wealthy friends gesturing at the fishermen and decided to vote Brexit.

Strange, really, that he has not stuck to his principles, as I would have thought he would be the kind of politician to stick doggedly to them - I read somewhere that he was so against his son going to a selective school that his marriage broke up as a result. His ex-wife sent their son to the selective school anyway. (and he went to one himself, and his mother taught in one.)

Everyone is entitled to a U turn though, but it seems as if he attempted a U turn and ended up on the pavement.

He always came acoss to me as a head teacher at a parent's evening. He was voted in by a group of younger more modern labour members. The whole trouble started when the same people voted in Ed Milliband instead of his oh so smart and and likeable brother. Since then it was downhill until now.
And there is the prospect of a right wing government.

obieone Wasn't Tony Blair a well-off ex-public schoolboy?

The problem with Corbyn is that he doesn't 'get' what leadership means. It means carrying the standard and carrying it high, declaring your beliefs, stating them clearly and defnding them stoutly when necessary.

If you have been elected to leadership of a party it is presumably because your standard and your beliefs are in most cases those of those who elected you. If you disagree with your party, you either convince them of your views or you accept the majority decision and defend them in the ways stated above

What you do not do is retreat into a little cabal of friends who think like you, only now and again sticking your nose out of your nest and retreating when anyone challenges you complaining that the other person wasn't being fair.

Politics is a rough and tumble business, always has been, always will be, and if you cannot stand the heat, you should get out of the kitchen and let someone else do the job.

Unfortunately I agree. It's not his fault the referendum was called, but he did very little except talk to the converted. What he says is always worth listening to, he just says it to the wrong people.

Yes oldgoat
but apparently he was not Labour

Yes, perhaps they made a mistake there MargaretX

breeze, how wrong can you be? Do you think the many party members from all around the country got together and cd used to vote for Corbyn as a stop gap? The Toriy MP's choose only two to go forward for the party members vote , in the Labour Party any MP csn put themselves up for election if they get a set number of MP's support, at the last leadership contest there were Four and five deputy leaders

I'm sorry but I can't take anyone seriously who wears a shell suit.

He always came across to me as a head teacher at a parent's evening.
or a lecturer at a technical college MargaretX
although I remember some of mine as quite inspirational
perhaps not the best analogy