Cameron - friend of Muslim women?

Well, they don't need to be 'persuaded' if it's a government initiative, do they? We aren't having a referendum on it...

If I lived in a country where I felt that a large number of people disliked me and blamed me for all sorts of social problems and criminal acts, and some people spat at me in the street, called me a "dirty Paki" or a "terrorist", I'm not sure I would value that community's approval or voluntarily co-operate with it.

I'm dismayed at some of the comments on this thread.

What's that got to do with the value of learning the language of the country you have chosen to live in?

I'm perplexed by your comment, Eloethan. What relevance does it have to the government offering English lessons to muslim women?

David Cameron stopped the free English classes in the first place but now he finds it politically expedient to make an issue about Muslim women who can't speak English - I think to appease that section of the population which has an underlying animosity to immigrants, and particularly Muslim immigrants.

Some of these women who can't speak English probably come from backgrounds very different from our own - much more sheltered and restricted - and they may have had only a very rudimentary education. It is going to be difficult to encourage them to venture into the alien environment of adult education classes when the world outside their own family and community must feel like a very hostile one.

Surely that is the point of the new visa applications. The government won't be able to "encourage" them to learn English, they will have to learn in order to stay.

theconversation.com/david-cameron-should-celebrate-muslim-women-not-strip-them-of-their-identity-53347

What some Muslim people think of Cameron's idea.

I don't think people should be coerced in that way - and I think it's totally unacceptable to target just one section of the immigrant population.

"It is important that politicians allow Muslim women to speak for themselves, in whichever language in their repertoire they choose to use.

They should ask them about their realities of belonging to Britain, about their dreams, hopes and ambitions; about how austerity is impacting upon them personally, as well as on the students they teach or the patients they treat, about their vision for a cohesive and progressive society and so on. Rather than claim to speaking for the Muslim woman, how about we let them speak for themselves?"

This is from the article above, written by a researcher at Goldsmith's.

That article is one of the best things I've read on the subject of immigration in ages. It says all I want to say about the subject of this thread.

Yes, thanks for that link durhamjen.

[[http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-35353310 Teaching migrants how to behave in Finland

Sorry Teaching migrants how to behave in Finland

It is 1.25, and I am only up because I was wakened by the thunder of the empty cold tank filling up. It was empty because apparently a burst water main was discovered in the area several hours ago, and the water turned off.

Interesting link Elegran. Hope the water supply is back to normal soon.

Good idea, Finland. I hope it works in helping people from cultures with very different ideas about women to adapt to their new one.

Another perspective. Very interesting. www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/22/david-cameron-muslim-women?CMP=twt_gu

Durhamgirl, let Muslim women speak for themselves, we will if they speak English, are we supposed to learn the hundreds of different languages in this country now? It's about time this country got its own house in order and stop trying to solve the problems of the whole world. If people do not like it here, they are free to go where they will feel comfortable and do not have to try to fit in with the country that does welcome those in need, that house educate and feed them. I imagine if there was a poll, that would be the general feeling here. Fit in, try or feel free to go where you don't have to bother.

Some need to be honest, stop hiding their dislike of Muslims behind the pretence they want Muslim women to be helped,

At least thatbags is honest, she thinks Muslim women in England should accept a new culture

Waiting for one to bring in they want Muslim women to become as English women - under the pretence of sisterhood

I really don't understand why some people seem to think it's a bad thing for immigrants to be required to speak decent English.

Can any of the dissenters please explain why not.

I most certainly do not dislike Muslims. I have lived and worked in a Muslim country and yes, before you ask, I tried hard to learn the language and naturally respected the culture there.
I don't understand why some posters seem to want to argue no matter what is put forward.
The bottom line is that people who choose to live here should try to learn about and how to live within our culture.
This most basic of rules has been encapsulated perfectly in the very old phrase "When in Rome do as the Romans do."

It's because of the 'Hug a tree brigade' that we are in the state we're in with immigration.

And asking what jane10 has just written is not askingpelple to remounce their own culture entirely. There will be lots of perfectly innocent but different cultural practices (food comes to mind, and various religious celebrations) that they will be perfectly free here to continue with. What immigrants should not be free to continue with is practices like FGM and the segregation of women. I'm going to stick my neck out and say our culture as regards those things is better and we should stand up for these better values. All cultural values are not equal, as cultural relativism seems to want to tell us.

Any woman who wants to segregate herself from the rest of society can still do so if she chooses. That's another cultural advantage she'll have here: choice.

"Some need to be honest, stop hiding their dislike of Muslims behind the pretence they want Muslim women to be helped"

It's too much of a blanket statement to say that people dislike Muslims per se, and it is tunnel visioned not to admit that there are a whole spate of issues that surround them that affect the way people react to them

I think most people know that not all Muslims are not all the same, a vast number are westernised and liberal and have had no problems in assimilating into our society. Others are more traditional, but again live their lives peacefully and don't present a problem. Nevertheless there is a section of Muslim society that we fear and another that make us angry. The latter would include those who are carried out abuses in places like Rotherham and lately what would seem a section of marauding men recently arrived in Europe and are treating European women in a disrespectful and appalling way. It hasn't helped that abuses towards women and children were hushed up for so long in the sexual abuse cases here and briefly in Germany/Sweden/Finland thus sacrificing the victims on the alter of political correctness. Into that mix we have the constant fear of random atrocities culminating in the Paris massacres. We know that something along those lines could well happen here, I have two children who work in London it's not irrational to fear a potential threat. Further to that we have sections of Muslims who wish to live apart who do not like our culture and seek to change it to something akin to the repressive draconian regime in Syria. It's not unnatural for British people to resent this behaviour and question why they wish to stay living in culture they profess to hate.

Jane10, because you did something everyone must do the same ? This is what you have just said , you lived and worked in a Muslim country, you tried hard to learn their language, you respected the culture there , a case of if I do it everyone must .

Anya, I am not against anyone learning to speak English, I am angry that Muslims have been singled out , not a squeak about people from Europe
Or India.
Cameron is using Muslim women as he used the Scots last year , and it disgusts me.

Unlike the majority here I do not expect everyone to do as I do. On a smaller scale I know what it's like to have the English don their little englander boots and start stamping over one's language and one's culture, what saddens me is posters who I know are nice people are not aware that they are being so unkind when it comes to Muslim women

Some spoke of historical racism, is last year dismissed as history ?

Some Muslim men dominate their wives , some British men batter hell out of theirs . Have you been into universities recently ? Seen how many Muslim students there are ? They have Muslim parents do they not?