Would you support the doctors' strike.

Hunt is apparently threatening to impose his new contract. Something i read this morning quoted a doctor as saying that he has succeeded in politicising and alienating a whole profession.
There was also the comment that recruitment of doctors in Wales might suddenly become a whole lot easier. Someone always benefits from a shambles. But as on this thread I'm sure the majority of people in Wales don't want to see the NHS in England suffering from this sustained attack.
Think of country that has a health system in which the rich get world-class care and the health of the poor is a great deal worse than it is here. USA maybe? That is what Hunt and co want to achieve.

One of the problems of offering a full service 24/7 is the cost of consultants. At present some get almost £1500 for working at weekends. I'm sure that the exception rather than the rule (well, I hope so), but it gives an idea of the scope of the problem. The government has yet to make a final offer to consultants and this won't happen until February at the earliest. So there could be more conflict to come.

As with junior doctors, Jeremy Hunt has told the BMA the new contract will be imposed if no agreement is reached.

Yes, any government has the power to impose working conditions /pay on the BMA.

It may come to it.

But the doctors will leave. Is that what the government wants?

It's by no means sure that doctors will leave.

Many doctors leave now and have for sometime, this will drive more away

Another case of wait and see, eh, roses?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-35305094

Junior doctors in Gaza support the NHS doctors' strike.

A sad situation-strangely-I have in my possession a GP's receipt for services rendered in the year 1924 or thereabouts (pre-NHS) for the sum of 5/- (A labourers wage was about 2/6 PW?) Sobering thought-paying to see the doctor. (Health Insurance of course)

If less hours are involved with the new contract ( I accept there will be less money in a lot of cases) wouldn't that be a good thing, since tiredness is cited for mistakes in hospitals.Since most doctors who leave to work in NZ and Australia are aged 25-27 that means we have trained them at a cost of half a million each, and their taxes then go to other governments.Sunshine and a better lifestyle is given as the chief reason for leaving.I always thought that junior doctors had to work for at least 5 years here in order to give something back. I am on the fence at the moment regarding the strikes.
Junior doctors always worked many hours ( so it's good if they are reduced)
But the rewards for the future are great for them.Plus of course, medicine is a vocation.

Please remember, before shouting down any who do not automatically agree with the strike, that we on here, just like the general public, will have mixed views on it, without sarcastic comments thrown about.

The problem (as always) boils down to money or the lack of it.

It would seem that everyone working in the public sector (whether it be the NHS, education, civil service) is unhappy with their pay, their working hours, their conditions etc.

Everyone seems to think that they are hard done by.

In an ideal world I would really like to pay more personal tax, more corporation tax, higher VAT, more employers NI, more employees NI and maybe instead of working until I am 67.5 maybe I should work until I am 77.5 ?

Maybe then everyone in the public sector could have what they wanted. What they feel they deserve.

Hmm, Gillybob, I don't think it's only public sector workers who complain about being hard done by. In the case of junior doctors though, who are among the best educated (and most expensively trained) workers in the country, and who are tasked with the most important decision-making in the NHS, surely we should all want to see them adequately recompensed?

Gillybob I really don't think you understand the strain these systems are under and the fact that if teachers, doctors, social workers are propping up the system through good will, unpaid and excessive overtime.

Should they withdraw their goodwill, and I for one would not blame them, and work to the hours they are supposed to and to the written terms and conditions of their contract, the whole system would collapse , believe me.

'Hard done by'? That doesn't even begin to describe it.

So true Anya

Whilst I totally appreciate that in every walk of life there are those that "give more" than they need to. But for all those that go that "extra mile" there will always be some that give as little as they can get away with.

As I said in my last post. There is no money tree, no never ending supply of money to be handed to those in the public sector who happen to feel that they are worth more.

How would you propose to pay the increased salaries that the teachers, doctors and social workers "who prop up the system" feel they deserve?

If the "hard done by" teachers, nurses, social workers etc. want out, then they are free to leave. Although I would suspect that they would be hard pushed to match their salaries, perks, holidays and pension pots anywhere in the private sector.

That is very harsh and most of the groups you castigate as simply 'hard done by' don't want more money - or they would be presenting employers with a huge demand for unpaid overtime.

You just don't get it do you?

I'd say we've got the education and health system we deserve. And it's falling apart.

Lack of funding (studies suggest most people would support an increase in tax if it went to the NHS), too much demand on those trying to hold it together and directives from government by people with no qualifications in either education, medicine or social work.

While inmates continue to run the asylum what else can we expect?

The reason the system is in such disarray, gillybob, is because you are getting your way.
"If they want out, they are free to leave"?
They are, in teaching, healthcare, social work.
There are vacancies in all those areas and more. They do not necessarily want to go into the private sector. They are going abroad, where their skills are better appreciated.

www.opendemocracy.net/ournhs/sam-semoff/heart-of-matter-patient-addresses-junior-doctors

A heart patient in Liverpool Hospital in support of the strike. He's still in there.

More support for them.

www.opendemocracy.net/ournhs/elly-robson/high-fives-cakes-and-flying-bicycle-pickets-public-support-rides-high-for-doctors

My DDIl is a receptionist for NHS 24 and tells me the Drs are leaving in droves. The service has actually been cancelled occasionally as there's no Drs available.

Does she have any indication of where they are going- if they leave?

Abroad? The private sector (that is waiting for them with very open arms and big fat cheques- Cameron's 'friends') or ?

" To cover the shortages, the NHS is now spending as much on locums in a fortnight as it would cost to run a whole A&E unit for a year, he disclosed – a situation he described as “madness”.

Widespread shortages are leaving patients facing ever longer waits in casualty, he told a conference in London, with far too many left to endure “pretty awful care”.

In total, more than 600 consultants and trainee A&E doctors have gone abroad in five years he said, with the vast majority seeking a new life in Australia.

Had they stayed, they could have treated 25 million patients over the course of their careers, he said."

From Doctor Mann, the most senior emergency doctor, last September.

It's always been the case that friends who had their own business or worked in the private sector, earned considerably more than I ever did, or did any of my friends who were teachers, social workers etc.
I realise that many people who work privately don't earn huge amounts of money, but neither do public servants. I think the average pension is around £6000 for former public servants.

Looking out our adult children and their large friendship group, it remains the case that the public servants earn less and work equally, if not longer hours, than their former school friends who work in the private sector or have set up their own businesses.