Establishment or Anti-establishment

Yes Eloethan, I can't say I've affection or respect for Charles and Camilla but in recent years I have genuinely struggled to name a potential future head of state. I can't get beyond Nelson Mandela or Archbishop Tutu.

I think like Jane10.

Growing up in our house we were encouraged to challenge everything to understand better. No one was every short of an opinion and I think this upbringing made me and my brothers avid readers with curious minds, always wanting to know more. In this respect the dawn of the Internet was such a great gift to us. We can now listen to exactly what someone said, watched what happened for ourselves. History is written by the victors, the media is hugely powerful, but the truth is also available for the telling.

So I would say that I am both establishment and anti-establishment, and neither. It depends on what is being discussed.

The wonderful 3 part series The Ascent of Women has just finished on BBC2 and if you want to see how women have always challenged the establishment, then do try and catch it.

I am fascinated by how much has been attributed to me that I didn't actually say.

I'm still of the same mind I was at 16- socialist, C of E but only occasionally actually going (only like traditional prayer book services) and still wanting to sweep away restricted practices, secret elitist organisations (Freemasons etc) and wanting equal opportunities for all.

Iam64 People tend to think of presidents as having an active party political role like American presidents but it doesn't have to be that way. A president can be just a figurehead who has very little or no power and whose role is primarily to represent the country at official state events at home and abroad.

In developed countries, presidents tend to be elected and allowed to serve for only a specified number of years. Also they can be removed if they are found to be corrupt or dishonourable.

I understand that Eloethan. I accept the arguments against the monarchy but I do wonder what could be put in its place that would improve life in the country, to put it simply.
I certainly feel that reducing the financial support, including police protection etc for so called 'lesser' royals is long overdue. How do Andrew's daughters afford to be on what appear to be permanent and very expensive foreign holidays. I don't have an 'off with their heads' approach but I do believe that group should get proper jobs and support themselves like the rest of the population.

I wouldn't mind the Queen/King staying as a figurehead, but would want to see all the trappings and the "My government" and "My ministers" bit got rid of. They are OUR government and they should always be reminded of that. Perhaps as well we could form a Royal reenactment society- a bit like the Civil War reenactment people. They could stage events at the Royal palaces for tourists.

I think it is way past time for swearing in oaths to be a pledge of loyalty to the UK not to the queen, I have no loyalty for the queen I have for the country , enough of all that for queen and country

Annie I had no choice when I wanted a British passport in 1972- had to Swear and Oath of Allegance to the Queen and her Successor- holding the Bible. Not sure I would do it now- but as said, there was NO choice.

I would go for that too. I don't mind the Queen and the Royal family doing its bit for the country, I just don't want to pay for it out of our taxes. Even if you ignore the things held in trust for the nation, the Queen is one of the richest women in the world and could pay her own way (there must be a better way of expressing that). I would be happy for the revenue from royal buildings, etc., to go in to the pot and any other revenue raising ventures. The Royal family is nicknamed The Firm, so run its finances like a business.

Any oath of loyalty should be to the country and the ties with jingoism cut.

granjura, it's ridiculous, if not abolished at least give people a choice

Yes Wilma, I'd be happy with that. We have a plan

My situation is even more absurd than that experienced by granjura. I am a British citizen by right of birth so I have never had to swear loyalty to the Queen and her successors. However, if I want New Zealand citizenship after the relevant number of years residency, I shall have to swear loyalty to the British crown. I'm not sure whether the swearing involves a Bible but suspect that some sort of affirmation may be used instead.

absent that's just daft LOL!