UKIP 4th or 3rd party

oo-er ana he obviously entered a time warp worm hole before the second world war to emerge untouched several decades later.

POGS

Are you saying it is OK for far right wing parties such as 'Jobbik' and 'Golden Dawn' to become mainstream parties just to effect change and worth going out on a limb for?

I don't believe I said that at all, I have no idea who Jobbik or Golden Dawn are but a quick google states that the former is a radical right wing party and the other was set up to practice the occult! They make UKIP sound much like the LibDems by comparison.

What I am saying is that the two main parties that are repeatedly voted in (almost in tandem) are running England into the ground (Scotland and Wales had more sense than to leave everything to Westminster). Risking repeating myself (but I will) the first sign of madness is purported to be doing the same thing over and over again but expecting to get different results; it's why nothing ever changes. Yes, I do advocate going out on a limb but I don't believe I recommended anything as radical as the extreme far right.

I fully understand that's democracy but it sure as hell scares me to think about it.

I don't think you need to be scared, the British have more sense than to bring in a loony party such as the two you have mentioned.

If you want people to continue to be kept on low pay, have housing shortages, children travelling miles to go to school, patients having to face long waits or being transported across Europe for treatment then by all means, vote for Tories, Labour or LibDems - I really don't see them changing things that much. The very fact that food banks exist is testament to how UK citizens are faring under the established rule.

He's so funny Ana, I love the way they take the P out of him on HIGNFY.

Do you think he plays up to it? I wonder if he's trying to fill Boris' boots on HIGNFY

HollyDaze

I asked the question because the thread was discussing European countries and not the UK when you posted.

I didn't think you had moved the conversation back to the UK.

It is well worth taking a look at 'Jobbik', 'Golden Dawn' 'PVV' , 'Lega Nord', 'NPD' and I think you would know the 'National Front' in France.

Yes, they are scarey parties.

To answer what I think the OP is asking...UKIP are set to become the 3rd party of British politics, since the LibDems are dead in the water with no chance of recovery.

Too soon to say perhaps. UKIP do not have any MPs remember. If the candidates we have seen so far are in any way representative of the candidates they would field next May then how are they going to hold their own in the spotlight of a general election? Neil Hamilton could not even get elected in a council seat let alone get back into Westminster.
Farage just might get a seat, as he had such a high profile - but he would have to pick his seat very carefully (Rotherham? you cynics, what DO you mean?) and even then I suspect he does put up an awful lot of backs and voters would turn out, to prevent him becoming their local MP. I think the UK press find him entertaining but do they really want UK out of Europe?
Immigration is an issue in some parts of the country, but there are great swathes of the UK where it is not. London, our most multi-ethnic city did not, I understand, vote for UKIP in a significant way for instance. Manchester, our second city (surely?) remains solidly Labour. Milton Keynes, which continues to absorb many immigrants from all over the world, will be Labour controlled for the first time in many years. I don't think UKIP has much appeal in Wales, which has received a lot of EU funding over the years.
At some stage the Libdems will reinvent themselves but it will take some time for many supporters to forgive them...
This morning it is also clear that the local elections were a massive poke in the eye for the coalition parties. Labour, despite keeping a fairly low profile, has done pretty well and the coalition between them lost over 400 seats.

Indeed. UKIP total of seats in London, Manchester, Birmingham and Liverpool is - three.

I doubt very much the LibDems while be able to reinvent themselves any time soon, if at all. They have lost all credibility, even Vince Cable. Those who thought they could out a brake on Tory excesses, when they formed the coilition are disgusted with issues such as tuition fees. They haven't been a force in British politics for a long time and the vacuum created by their implosion will probably be taken up by UKIP.

UKIP appeals to several kinds of voters; those who want out of Europe despite the consequences, those who think immigration is out of control, those who declare they are 'not racist but...' , those who are 'fed up' with main stream parties, the gullible and those who just like Nigel as a character, etc.

These are all very different groups and a large percentage (17% according to the polls) of the population and if they target seats very carefully who knows, they too might hold the balance of power in 2015.

I think it's highly unlikely Nigel Farage would make it to Downing Street as a tenant - I see the polling results as firing a warning shot (as the French did with Le Pen) to the two main parties. What happens from now on will, to a large extent, be down to the Tories and Labour.

Maybe the voting public are tired of the posh boys trying to handle the economy (when both Cameron and Milliband didn't have a clue about the cost of bread, milk or the average weekly shop).

The real threat for Labour and LibDems is their stance on Europe and immigration as they keep repeating it is good for the country (and I doubt anyone could argue to the contrary) but it has to be controlled immigration that fits the needs of the UK. Labelling those who are concerned as racists will only inflame matters even more as it highlights that they simply are not listening or taking note of what is happening to the lives of ordinary people living in the UK (regardless of what their nationality is).

Yes, immigration is good for the country as it ensures a plentiful supply of cheap labour for businesses (amongst other things).

However, all parties admit that this will mean driving down rates of pay for unskilled workers in particular and eroding their working conditions.

I think that is one reason why UKIP voters are less likely to have a degree. It is not that they are too stupid to know what they are doing (as has been suggested on this thread), just that they know they are more at risk in terms of employment, housing and finding decent schooling for their children than people who are well educated and in the professions.

Well, that's one way of looking at it!

If nearly all the UKIP candidates were a bit more like Nigel Farage, then I'm afraid that UKIP would sweep to power in the next general election. Thankfully, they are not, and are often kept very much in the background for a good reason.The party IS Nigel Farage.I agree with others on here who say that it's more than putting up two fingers at the established parties [why people are voting UKIP] most people in this country of whatever politics, are worried with just cause about immigration that got out of hand years ago, with all the attendant problems. Secondly, that most people are not happy with the constraints of the EU in other areas either, being not what we all voted for [the EEC.]Will this energise the main two parties now to get really serios about these matters? Who knows! A lot of people would really like UKIP to have power in Westminster.

However, all parties admit that this will mean driving down rates of pay for unskilled workers in particular and eroding their working conditions.

That, in itself, petallus, wouldn't be a bad thing as it would make Britain (not just the UK) more competitive with the emerging markets. However, the cost of living needs to fall at the same rate and with a lowering of VAT in particular so that incomes can still meet outgoings - and that hasn't happened.

I think that is one reason why UKIP voters are less likely to have a degree. It is not that they are too stupid to know what they are doing (as has been suggested on this thread), just that they know they are more at risk in terms of employment, housing and finding decent schooling for their children than people who are well educated and in the professions.

I agree, it was an unkind and unnecessary comment to make (whoever made it). However, the point you have made in response more than cancels the original statement about them.

UKIP have gained from people calling others racists for having a concern over immigration numbers. This attack has only inflamed people to vote for them.

UKIP have not brought class warfare into their debate.

Perhaps people are also fed up to the back teeth of partisan politics and name calling. In other words politics has become puerile led by media crap that makes headlines and dulls the brain. eg. 'Posh boys who don't know the cost of bread', 'Red Ed', 'Wallace and Gromit' 'Plebgate', 'Horse gate'. When you seriously delve into the background of these headlines you know it is all media hype to appease the masses but not of any intellect or probably relevance.

UKIP is now probably the party of opposition, something a lot of people have wanted 'for ever'. Now they have one they don't want them because they still don't agree with their own politics and start the mad dash for beating them too with a tired old stick.

It has been interesting to watch the results and it is whether we like it or not people voting in a democracy and have spoken. Rotherham is a classic case study and basically I think that Labour heartland has made Labour think. The same as Essex has made the Conservatives think. As for the Lib Dems they have not lost because of the coalition as much as they have strong views on the EU and immigration and the voter has turned against them.

I don't vote UKIP but I do find Nigel Forage plausible if I 'listen' to what he actually says. I think UKIP will now have so much scrutiny on the party it will either make huge gains or implode. UKIP are going to dominate the debate on Sunday too if this is how they have gained seats from the mainstream parties.

I agree with what you say POGS [as I usually do;perhaps we were twins parted at birth?[ though it's not UKIP that is plausible only , as you say Nigel Farage, and there's the rub.The man is the party.

There is a Dentist, not far from me here in darkest Essex who has a HUGE Ukip board in the front garden of his beautiful thatched cottage.
I wonder what he would make of some of these remarks.

He's probably used to it by now - if you venture into the world of politics you have to roll with the punches!