Grumpy post warning

And what happened to the freedom to choose not to do what the FO wants?
Grr.

exactly thatbags

If it's a 'request', Bags, surely that confers the choice to either comply or not.

It's an unnecessary request. That's why it's annoying. People can think for themselves. It's nagging in effect.

They can call it a request, but it's nannyish bossiness really because if they were happy for people to choose for themselves they wouldn't feelt he need to make such a 'request'.

We expect you to behave in this fashion because that's the proper way to behave and we won't be pleased, it will reflect badly on US if you don't.

Snarl.

OK. Got the message, do you want me to go and find the rest of the toys you've thrown out of the pram?

I agree bags it is inappropriate .

I'm sure this silly request has its origins in Downing Street - a guilty conscience perhaps on Cameron's part.

Yes please, ceesnan. Grumpitastic this morning.

I saw some other comments, Riverwalk, pointing out that the UK, among other governments, supported South African apartheid and were against Mandela's fight for freedom and equality, so I think you are spot on there. By the time we got to Blair British politicians were "Mandela groupies" but before that there's plenty for them to feel guilty about.

Bags I think you mean Conservative governments and politicians.

Sorry to hear that Bags hope you are feeling happier soon.

Thank you, ceesnan. I do feel better now. There's nothing like having a good old grump on gransnet to put things in order again

River, i think you're right in general terms. However, see this: "After the Labour Party sweep to power though, commitment to the anti-apartheid cause dissipated. In short order, Labour Party leader Harold Wilson told the press that his Labour Party was "not in favour of trade sanctions partly because, even if fully effective, they would harm the people we are most concerned about - the Africans and those white South Africans who are having to maintain some standard of decency there."

I remember that reservation and it troubled me at the time. I was very pleased when black South Africans started getting the message across that trade sanctions (the boycott of SA goods, etc) did help their cause.

I was nine years old in 1964 when Wilson became PM and I remember telling DDs 1 and 2 when we were shopping and they went to choose the apples not to get South African ones. They were six and four years old at the time but they understood enough even then about fairness and equality.

DD1 actually came running back to me on the other side of the fruit display shouting in a shocked voice: "That man is buying South African apples!" I hoped at the time that he heard and it sunk in.

Anyway, my point is that by then I was into my thirties.

It took a looooong time.

Thatcher was still refusing to join with the commonwealth countries on sanctions in the eighties and our present PM describe his visit to SA during the years of apartheid as 'just a jolly'

Regardless of our political views, no one can deny the Kinnocks fought so hard against apartheid for decades , the Labour Party were vocal in their condemnation of apartheid

Exactly Annie - I'd love to know the names of any Conservative politicians who were supporters of anti- apartheid movement- as I said on another thread - this was a defining left/ right issue in general terms. The current England manager played in SA under apartheid and I despise him for it as well as other cricketers etc. when Mandela was released we were much cheered at being able to drink SA wine again - although I am aware many of the wineries leave a lot to be desired in terms of treatment of black
Workers but there are some cooperatives...

Better than asking us to put flowers outside the South African Embassy or wear black armbands.

I'm reminded of a comment made about the party conferences in the 90s .....

Labour's guests were Bill Clinton & Nelson Mandela and the Conservative's had Lulu & Jim Davidson

It's probably just as well I've managed to get to my present age without knowing who Jim Davidson is then.

Bags re South African apples.
In 1969 I lived in a bedsitter in South Manchester and round the corner was a row of the sort of shops that have now become building societies or estate agents.
I went into the greengocer's one day to find the only apples available were South African granny smiths.
There was no-one else in the shop and I spent some minutes haranguing the shop owner about why I woudn't buy his apples and why he shouldn't be selling them.
He listened patiently for some time, asking several questions and then I became aware that his gaze was now focussed somewhere behind my left shoulder.
I turned round to see a queue of about eight people had formed, all listening to my little diatribe.

My oldest boy was in primary school when on a family shopping trip he bought sweets from the pick-mix in woolworths by chance he happened to read one of the wrappers and it said 'made in south Africa' he promptly returned to the shop asked for the manager and said if you sell things from South Africa you should label them as such then people like me will have a choice about buying them ..I was never prouder

I still have that hang up about South African apples, not that I see them much these days. Also, the Afrikaans accent invokes those strong feelings in me, ever since I was introduced as a teenager in 1964 to a Johannesburg family who came to visit our next door neighbour and learned that not only did they have black servants, but they derided me for asking whether they would work for a black family. When Mandela was imprisoned, they celebrated. Not something I will ever forget.