Ex Pats deserting Spain

Some of us made a 'positive' move abroad, not a negative 'rat escaping sinking ship'. Even with the best of planning, it is not always possible to account for everything. The exchange rate for the £ against the Swiss Franc means we have lost 50% of our income since we arrived here 3 years ago- we knew fluctuations were likely, but never ever on this scale. Fortunately we live in a very cheap part of non-touristy Switzerland (the Jura mountains) and right next to the French border, so we can do part of our shopping there.

We would never expect others to bail us out, and if we do have to go back, or choose to go back, to UK - we would expect to be welcome. With great family and friends there, and our grand-children, I know we would be. Part of my heart will always be in England

(of course for us it is different- as I am Swiss despite spending all my adult life in England).

Yes Tanith Welsh is compulsory in Welsh schools from the age of 5 untill GCSE exams.
I have lived in South Wales for more than 20 years and have nfound the people here to be friendlym and welcoming. I have heard about the north not being so friendly but it also extends, I believe, to Welsh people from the south.

I'm sorry but I know I am going to get a backlash here but hey ho. I do not have any sympathy for anyone coming back to Britain from Spain complaining about their hardship. I cannot help but notice how many expats are on Gransnet and I think there could well be a difference of opinion because of the dynamics involved.

What is the difference between someone loosing their home in Britain because they have no employment to someone in Spain. What is the difference between someone in Spain finding their money does not go as far as someone in Britain. I don't get it.

If you choose not to live in Britain that's your choice. What you no longer do is support the economics of Britain by spending in the shops, paying taxes such as V.A.T., paying road tax, council tax etc., generally keeping the economics of Britain going. You never had the love of the country to stay put and as in my sister-in-laws case repeatedly informed me life was so much better in Spain than crappy old England. Now she wants to come back because of finances and expects the family to provide, she can't understand why nobody is keen to help.

As the saying goes 'you make your bed, you lye in it'.

I've Welsh blood in me from my Maternal side , South Wales which I have always found to be quite normal and friendly , but in the North they are not so nice.. my sister lives near Tenby and all her children were taught Welsh at school . I believe it was compulsory, not sure if it still is though.

I know what you mean greatnan my tyde (welsh grandfather) was poorly and mum had to go and look after him for a week or two I went with her and when ever we went into the butchers it was like the parting of the waves as all the locals stood back and made a space for mum at the counter so they could see every single thing she was putting in her shopping bag and watched her pay for the goods,as we where leaving they continued to chatter on and never so much as asked how my grandpa was and he had lived in the town all his life so maybe it just wasn't your family that was disliked but ours as well Maybe they thought that we where going to move there when gramps died ?

tanith I saw a shortish clip on the early Breakfast news today and made a few yelping noises as I listened to the Brits complaining about the Spanish economy. Are we meant to feel sorry for these people who have had so much fun in the sun? Or are we very slightly envious of the fact that they've had sunshine at all?!

I suspect those of us who've stayed rooted to the spot do feel a little bit jealous of those who have upped sticks for a warmer climate and cheaper housing, hence our lack of sympathy for them now that times are getting tough. But life isn't a bed of financial roses here either is it. The cost of food and fuel has gone through the roof, our savings produce little or no income and the NHS is in a pretty parlous state.

But at least most of us are established in our own homes here. It must be frightening to be an expat who wants to come back to the UK but can't afford to. So I am trying to be a little bit sympathetic - but only a little bit!

I have to say, Glam, that the only time I have ever felt unwelcome in a new area was when we moved to Mold. The other mothers at the school gate pointedly ignored any English mums. My four year old daughter came home very excited to say she had been invited to a birthday party. We duly got her in her best frock and bought a card and present and I walked her down the street. The Welsh woman who opened the door said, Yes , we are having a party but she's not invited'. What kind of monster does that to a four year old girl?
We were very quiet, well behaved neighbours - I was doing a B.Ed. in Chester and my husband worked at the Electiricty Council Research Centre. We kept the house and garden very neat and made no noise. What possible reason could the Welsh have for treating us so horribly - I am not responsible for what some English king did in the middle ages. I suppose they would say we pushed up the price of houses - well, it didn't seem to bother the Welsh person who sold us their house!
I am not talking about the odd bitchy person - this was a whole town, or so it seemed.

tanith There where some who seemed to be just waiting it out for when the situation got better but I do not think that will happen in their lifetime unfortunatly,from experience the only way a lot of restaurants are still going are because they are Spanish and employ their relatives and they own the properties that they work from,we where very lucky to have sold to a Dutch gentleman who already had a restaurant in the next village,if my boys had fell for Spanish girls I can gaurentee that we would still be there now.We did not go for the big villa type living but a 3 bed apartment in a Spanish complex so there was no chance of us being taken for a ride as far as being sold a plot of land without planning permission,you would be surprised how many people buy these massive villa's without having the contracts translated then find out they have a problem unbelieveable but true !!greatnan so true about the Welsh language my mum was Welsh and spoke it fluently but when we used to go to Wales to visit relatives we where always talked about by people who didn't know mum could understand them she found it very insulting and unfriendly.

Actually not 100% Greatnan - think of the Catalans and Basques!

nainnainnain - but 100% of Spaniards speak Spanish, and only 20% of the Welsh speak Welsh (according to the census) so there did not seem much point in my learning it when 80% of my neighbours would not understand me!

Ah! I didn't see the whole thing then glammanana, must of been just the hi-lights as it were.. lol.. and thanks..
As a matter of interest did they interview anyone who was happy with their lot?

tanith It was also a live report on the early morning news this morning about 6.45am it was on for a good 20mins interviewing the ex-pats.

netgran I saw it on the BBC news webpages, I'm sure there are people abroad who are perfectly happy with their circumstances , they were interviewing people who were not happy, so I guess not balanced. I am just curious why they felt the need to lay blame with everyone else rather than their own decisions.
A bolt hole sounds like a perfect solution. Sounds like you were fortunate that you didn't have a mortgage in negative equity like so many .

Hi tanith
Can I ask where you saw the report and was it a balanced interview?
Hubby and I moved to Portugal (north of Lisbon) following early retirement. We have had a wonderful time out there and hope to return in the not too distant future (presently in the UK helping daughter out with childcare whilst she is looking for a job following a failed business venture)
With hindsight we would have bought a smaller house and a small bolt hole here in the UK but sometimes you just can't foresee all eventualities.
I am sure that there are people living abroad that need to return home for reasons not just based on bad planning or ignorance.

I haven't been to Spain, but to judge by what people have posted, many ex-pats behave very ignorantly, - much the same, in fact, as English settlers in Wales, where I have been. I read somewhere that about 20% of the English in Spain learn the language; by my calculations, in Welsh-speaking Wales it's more like 10% or less.
It seems that all the centuries of conquering and ruling have done something to our heads which will take a long time to change.

Thanks, Marnie, for reminding us that it's VE Day today. Memories...........

When I moved to France it was with the express intention of returning to GB at sometime in the future. Don't know when that might be, or if it will work out, but meanwhile I am enjoying life here. We've renovated a cottage, my husband teaches French (Profession Liberale), and we mosey along. Sometimes I think it's not a question of where you live, but how you live which matters.

I too sympathise with anyone whose plans haven't worked out, ex-pat or not. Whether it's in the Spanish sunshine or English rain, it's still a tough call.

Lots of varied views and some having had wonderful experiences , its nice to hear all the different stories. Its a pity people are finding themselves in between a rock and hard place and I'm sure they'd agree with glamanana that they won't be thinking 'if only' in years to come..

gkal I do wonder what you find 'scary' about the UK? Isn't there resentment in many countries all over the world between different factions? Its a case of how you deal with whats going on around you and live your life according to how you want.

That should perhaps say ... how hard life can be for some French people - clearly not all of them!

Yes I agree glammanana, no need to feel you have to stay somewhere for ever, that is part of the fun of life.
I think, flowerfriend, because we have had quite a few struggles with "l'administration" ourselves (mainly caused by those health reforms which caused immense problems and distress for people who had been living here for a year or so when they were rushed in) that we have a different view. As an elected local councillor I also see and hear quite a bit of just how hard life can be for the French and I know we wouldn't want to have to deal with that later on in our lives.

I am an ex-pat. Have lived in Switzerland since 1977 when I came here as a nurse looking for a challenge, married and had a family. I love many aspects of the UK and sometimes think about returning although it's a "scary" place at the moment. IMO if ex-pats feel they wish to return to the UK, for whatever reason, they should be welcomed back. I sympathise with anyone whose plans have not worked out. There are so many divisive political commentaries going on at the moment so that different sectors of society are encouraged to resent each other.

Before we moved abroad in early 2000 we knew that we would have to work to give ourselves a living we sold the family home here in UK and invested our money giving ourselves a decent return at the time but we still took the route of working for ourselves,our Spanish village was very friendly and welcoming and our language skills improved by the second year we where there becoming fluent by the third year,we where welcomed into local fiesta's and employed a Spanish Chef in our restaurant giving the choice of Spanish or English food.Through out our time there (nearly 10yrs) we paid our business taxes and community taxes which enabled us to qualify for medical treatment which is second to none.We had plans for DS1 & DS2 to take over the business when we retired and they came out of the military but they meet girlfriends who did not want to move abroad and we where very lucky to sell at the right time before the exchange rate went really low,I do feel sorry for the people who are stuck in the negitive equity trap but then there are a lot of people in the same situation in this country now.I am glad we took the opportunity we did at the time we had no DCs living at home and enjoyed our time there even though we worked hard we made some fabulous friends even to this day,I would hate to have reached the age I am now and said "if only"

Greatnan oops! did not mean to sound judgemental. I was just reflecting on what my experience of ex-pats was and it includes members of my own family in all three categories!!!

Well, that lets me off the hook - I am definitely in category 2 except that I don't get involved in anything because there is nothing in which to get involved.

I think there is some misconception that a pension is just a benefit that does not need to be earned. The state retirement pension is not dependent on where you live, but how much you have contributed. It would be unfair if people were to lose all their contributions because they lived abroad. Of course, immigrants to most Commonwealth countries have their pension frozen at the rate it is when they become non resident. It is uprated if you live in any EU country.

In the EU, there is a 'knock for 'knock' rule for healthcare - in other words immigrants from other EU countries are entitled to the same health care as nationals. In Spain, that means that if you are below 60 you have to be self employed or in work. Over 60, you get a form from the DWP saying what health cover you are entitled to receive in Britain. In France, that means I get 70% of my medical costs reimbursed, which is what a French national of similar age would get. I pay private insurance to top up any costs for in patient treatment. French or Spanish people living in the UK would be entitled to full cover because that is what British nationals get.
There was much panic on the French expat forums when the rules were changed a few years ago which meant that early retirees, i.e. those below pension age in Britain, had to take out cover for 100% of treatment.

I only have holiday experience of other countries except for living in East Africa as a child..so not a similar situation! But the people I have met /know who have moved to live in another country fall into three (broad categories)

1) those who move for the 'myth' that the 'grass is greener' & who often feel GB is the pits and everything is wrong..immigration /tax/weather etc etc and think, unrealistically, they can live the life of Riley elsewhere by replicating habits and lifestyle in GB but,usually, in the sun!

2) those who have a real love of the place they want to move to and adapt to their new locale, speaking the language and getting involved in some of the local (indigenous) community life.

3) those who have gone because of their job /work and who may be there on a temporary basis ( due to work ) or decide to stay because they really like where they were sent to.

Whilst I do not wish anyone real hardship I have far less sympathy for group 1 than I do for 2 & 3!

No, I don't really - because I assume they've had quite a good time. I think, too, they have received pensions and have been able to take advantage of the NHS. The fact that they didn't look ahead, I understand, but they have got their problems now in trying to get back because it won't be easy to sell their properties and start again here. Tough! But it's quite tough here too. The Spaniards will miss them too financially, but in some eyes, the Brits tend to ruin anywhere they chance upon! So some will say - good riddance!