Diary of a benefit claimant.

I'm not sure, actually.
The system is very, very complicated.

It seems I need to go onto universal credit (the benefit that makes all this easier!)

They will try to make me go to work until such time as it becomes clear that I can't (or can)
Then it will be time for a medical assessment... and... I'm not sure after that.
It is so confusing, and made all the worse because my circumstances don't fit neatly into a pigeon hole.

So, in short, all the benefits have been merged into universal credit.

Thank you, dustyangel.

Oh, pip is a benefit in it's own right.
I did apply for that, but the CAB advisor told me not to mention it to the job centre.

Not quite all the benefits, Miss Adventure, just 6, all means-tested: JSA, ESA, Income Support, Child and Working Tax Credits. UC now includes an Housing element towards rent.

Some people with enough NI contributions will be able to claim New Style JSA or ESA. Yes, it is complicated!

Disability benefits such as PIP, DLA, and Attendance Allowance are quite separate, though I think there are plans to change that.

Well that sounds simple enough.

Thank you.

I have now found some things on the web.

I don't know if you are aware of these pages, but I am linking to them on the basis that it is better to risk knowing twice rather than risk not knowing at all.

www.gov.uk/universal-credit

There is a link on that page about eligibility that leads here.

www.gov.uk/universal-credit/eligibility

Way down that page is the following.

> If you have a disability or health condition

> If you have a health condition that affects your ability to work you might get extra money for Universal Credit.

That links to here.

www.gov.uk/health-conditions-disability-universal-credit

Way down that page is the following.

> Work Capability Assessment

That appears that it might be to what you are being subjected.

There is a piece

> How the assessment affects your claim

I consider that a fairer and true way to rewrite that would be to include the word "deemed" in various places.

They might try to deem that someone is fit for work, but if the person does not feel that he or she is fit for work then I really cannot believe that some person. even a doctor, can be absolutely certain that a person is absolutely fit for work.

In a section headed

> Your responsibilities

there is the following.

> You’ll need to agree to do certain things to keep getting Universal Credit. This is known as your ‘Claimant Commitment’.

> Your commitment is based on your situation and may be affected by the outcome of your Work Capability Assessment.

So to yet another page.

www.gov.uk/universal-credit/your-responsibilities

If I remember correctly somewhere 'up thread' you mentioned that they might try to get you to do a course.

I don't know how you feel about that. What, if anything, that you feel that you could do. I just mention that some courses are not helpful and some are good.

For example, if you are put in that position, if you suggest doing one of the free courses at

www.open.edu/openlearn/

www.open.edu/openlearn/free-courses/full-catalogue

It might be that if they want you to do a course that if you suggest something, like some information technology skill, then they might pay for the course and the necessary software.

I hope that this post is helpful to you.

I hope that it all works out for you.

Thank you

I have a job to go to, if ever I'm well enough.
I think the pressure to do courses is just to fill your time, and of course, to give proof that a person isn't as ill as they are pretending.

Unfortunately, I am that ill.

All of that info is very helpful, though.

I'll have a good read through it, (later!)

*MissA" similar circumstances as you may remember from previous messages.

Heartfelt empathy as have been in your position.

Remember vividly queing up for money to which we where entitled at a window at B@@@@@@@n job centre and being treated like c@@ p at the bottom of the officers shoe.

Losing our girls,looking after her child/ ren and subsequent health conditions, bith mentally and physically,you have to have been there.

Big hug, keep fighting,it is all you can do.

Ah, thanks Downtoearth.

I have to say I have been treated fairly, so far, it just feels that there is some subtle mind games going on.
(Such as not letting me know when my appointment is)

I shall keep on keeping on, though.

I found this website.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work_Capability_Assessment

A popular view is that wikipedia is unreliable as anybody can edit it.

However, I have often found wikipedia articles to be of high quality. If someone tries to be silly there are people who remove the silliness.

I have also found this website.

www.disabilityrightsuk.org/work-capability-assessment

I think that I am gradually beginning to understand the system.

As far as I can tell, please someone correct me if you feel the need, it seems that there is a benefit called Employment and support allowance and I think that it can be in two 'flavours', either free-standing or as an add-on to Universal Credit, which might be the 'flavour' that relates to you.

It seems that it replaces the earlier benefit that was called Incapacity Benefit.

Though it is not just the same thing with a different name.

In the old days, (for example 1980s) once someone had had a time (26 weeks?) on sickness benefit, he or she was moved automatically to Incapacity Benefit. I thbnk that I saw somewhere once long ago that Incapacity Benefit was at a higher rate as sickness benefit was intended to "tide someone over" but Incapacity Benefit recognised greater needs. For example, during sickness benefit, make do with the clothes you already have, but Incapacity Benefit recognised that longer term you needed from time to time get some new clothes, and so on.

In those days someone on Incapacity Benefit, as well as needing regular sick notes from his or her general practitioner could be required to be examined by a doctor at a Department of Health and Social Security (DHSS) establishment. This could be in the same building as an ordinary DHSS office, but with its own entrance away from the ordinary entrance. The idea was seemingly a mixture of trying to 'catch skivers' and trying to make sure that nothing had been missed by the patient's doctor. So discussion and urine test for diabetes and a 'broad screen' and blood pressure test, stethoscope and so on.

I am wondering if some administrator has changed this to some checkbox exercise. I am wary of such things, it is like surveys where companies seek feedback but ask particular questions with a preset choice of answers. There is often no way for the responses to gather in the real problems that consumers are noticing.

The thinking with the Work Capability Assessment seems to be to assess "what can you do?" rather than "what can't you do?"

What I am wondering is how this assessment can be done over the telephone unless they are taking the claimant's word for what he or she can do. Or is the telephone call to arrange an in-person visit by a medically-qualified person?

I think (at least this is how it was)
That you need to provide evidence (doctors letter, plus they fill in a form) lists of medication and so on.
There was a bit of controversy because the assessments were done by what were essentially clerical staff.

This has now been changed, and it will be done by someone with a medical background.
(Example - a physiotherapist assessing someone's mental state)

There was also cases of assessors lying or exaggerating good results during the assessments.

Hopefully this has now improved.

Anyone applying for or claiming Universal Credit who has a fit not from their GP will, in the course of time, be given both a paper assessment UC50 form and will have an assessment by a “ health professional” . The DWP outsources these to a company contracted to do them; as MissA says, it could be a physio- there is no guarantee they will have knowledge of any specific condition. During the pandemic these were done by phone, some are now face to face, but they are not there to examine you as a medic. There are certainly boxes to tick! A Decision Maker will look at all the evidence and make one of three decisions: that a claimant is fit for work( even though their GP says they are not) and must look for jobs, or can do some work preparation activities, or else is not fit for work. Only the latter category gets extra cash and will not be pestered. You can challenge a decision within one month of the date on the letter.

I should add that the “ descriptors” of what you may or may not be able to do are in the public domain. It is a points scoring system.

This site has useful info & advice, some free and some needing a subscription of £19.95.

A relative of mine found it very useful.

www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/

When filling in forms, put as much detail as possible for every question, even if the same details are already in a previous answer.

The system for assessment under UC is exactly the same as for Employment Support Allowance. Some people are still on this., as a legacy benefit. Some people can now claim New Style ESA if they have the right NI contribution record.
Any advice you come across about ESA assessment applies to the work capability assessment under UC.

That is a great site, FarNorth, but there is plenty of free advice out there too.
www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/employment-and-support-allowance/help-with-your-esa-claim/fill-in-form-esa/

www.gov.uk/browse/benefits/disability

FarNorth

This site has useful info & advice, some free and some needing a subscription of £19.95.

A relative of mine found it very useful.

www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/

When filling in forms, put as much detail as possible for every question, even if the same details are already in a previous answer.

I just had a look at that site and a pop up panel offered me a free fornightly newsletter by email.

I accepted

Cabbie21

I should add that the “ descriptors” of what you may or may not be able to do are in the public domain. It is a points scoring system.

Thank you.

I have found them at

www.disabilityrightsuk.org/wca-limited-capability-work-assessment-descriptors

17 activities

So one can do a preliminary self-assessment to get an idea of what score one might reasonably get.

Thank you.
All of these links are going to be very helpful along the way, I'm sure.

I (probably stupidly) believe that if I am honest throughout any assessment, it will be clear that I'm not trying to pull the wool over anyones eyes, or pretend to be worse.

If someone is honest they (jobcentre staff &c) cannot lawfully claim that the person is dishonest.

Years ago (I know ) there were some interesing aspects to things that the media and politicians loudmouthing did not seem to know about.

For examples, the soundbite mouthshout is that if someone is offered a job and will not take it then they will be sanctioned.

Yet the rules, openly stated, were that a person could not be required to apply for or take a job that was against their religion or their conscience.

Also that a person could not be required to apply for or take a job that the person considered would be detrimental to their health.

I noted at the time that the bit about health was self-assessment, not, it appeared, being capable of being overruled.

That could be quite far reaching, not being involved in making or selling cigarettes, meat, dairy, clothes made from wool, and so on. Not working near things like a plastic moulding machine due to the smell of molten plastic making one feel ill and so on.

It could be important to you if we can find out if those rules still apply.

Also they cannot sanction people if they are unsuccessful at learning something.

For example, if someone has literacy problems and the jobcentre wants them to attend a course to try to inprove literacy. If the person does not attend without good reason they can sanction, but if the person goes but is unable to learn they cannot sanction.

Alas, even if the person had a very good reason for not having attended it was called "failure to attend" before even trying to learn why.

The jobcentre used to be very fond of words like fail, failure, failed.

For example if someone could not get a job, not many about, many peope applying for each one, it was termed that the person had failed to get a job.

The DWP phrase that really infuriates me is “ I have decided”. We see this in decision letters. “ You say……. But I have decided….” In other words, I don’t believe you.

You mentioned your health and difficulties convincing a doctor that there was something physically wrong.

You have not described the health issues you have and it is none of my business so I am not asking.

But just in case, I will relate something.

Many years ago I worked in a large organisation that had many departments. A lady in a nearby office kept having peculiar sensations, her doctor was treating her as, well, 'nutty', though did eventually send her to a neurologist who did not find anything. This went on, she being at work, not off sick with it.

One day, I happened to be visiting another depoartment for something and by one lady's desk was a notice pinned up.

Cleaners, please do not use Mr Sheen in this area

I asked the lady what that was about.

She explained that when Mr Sheen had been used to clean her desk, it made her feel peculiar.

I told the above to the lady where I worked.

She asked the cleaners if they used Mr Sheen. Yes.

Could they not use it in her office please? Yes, fine.

The lady got better.

I am just wondering if you might be using something that is affecting you without you realising it.

Maybe your health issues are nothing to do with that, but I mention it just in case.

I know that I caanot use bleach or anything with chlorine, nor flash, nor lots of them.

I found that what I can use to clean the floor is Fairy Liquid Pomegranate and Honeysuckle (it's red) diluted in warm water.

Even Fairy Liquid citrus, while tolerable, is not ideal for me, but for whatever reason the Pomegranate and Honeysuckle seems fine.

Thank you.
I have been battling to be heard, insisting that I am not well for a couple of years now, have had to put in a complaint with PALS to be heard, but it is slowly becoming clear that I really am "not well" at all.

So, still havent heard from the job coach to let me know when my phone appt is.

I shall update again once it has happened.

Also, the dwp can and did override my sick note after my girl died.
They wrote to my gp to tell him not to issue any more, and made me an appointment to start my job hunt, ignoring that the sick note hadnt run out.

The physiotherapist o saw in my assessment decided I was perfectly fit to work.
(Fair enough, I wasnt sick as such, but it almost finished me off, mentally)

Blimey MissA that’s deplorable ??

That's appalling MissA.
How can jobcentre jobsworths think they know better than your doctor?