Diary of a benefit claimant.

Well, I am intending to be a bit less submissive this time.
I have to remember my manners, and be polite, and i will be, but i will not be beaten down like last time.

On the webpage

www.gov.uk/health-conditions-disability-universal-credit

is the following.

> You can ask for your assessment to be recorded. If you would like this, tell the Health Assessment Advisory Service using the contact details in your appointment letter.

Only you can decide whether to do that or not.

I can see pluses and minuses.

Having it recorded does mean that there is a record, unless they lose it or claim to have lost it.

I read somewhere someone felt that if in a dispute in a hospital someone even asks to see a copy of the complaints procedure, that merely asking that improves the way things go even before any complaint is made.

So if the way the things are done is generally sloppy then knowing that a recording is being made may cause things to be done by the book. It is one thing the authorities preferring to believe the assessor rather than the patient, but if a recording is available it makes it harder to do that.

However, would asking for the interview to be recorded put their backs up and have you deemed a troublemaker, even though it is your right to have it recorded?

Would asking for a recording mean a delay - genuine or contrived - in you getting any money?

Would they be out to victimise you? But, if they would victimise you for requesting a recording, would they treat you shabbily anyway because they treat everybody shabbily.

Yet maybe the stories are from long ago and things have changed. Hopefully so.

Or do you get a basic rate anyway until such time as the assessment is complete and a decision made and implemented?

I once heard on the radio the story of a single man who was in his fifties and in hospital and it was found he needed kidney dialysis.

He was told that alas there were not many machines and if he had been in his early thities with a wife and two small children he could have had one, but alas, as etc etc

So he wrote a letter to the head of whatever complaining and stating that he had told his sister that if he died through not getting the treatment he needed that she was to sell his house and use the money to take out a prosecution of (whoever) for (whatever it was he put).

A kidney dialysis machine for him arrived the next day.

The BBC interviewer exclaimed that that seemed very unfair, he got priority treatment only because he had the (whatever) to write that letter.

To which the narrator of the story replied.

"Cognoscenti always do well"

A couple of points.

You have the right to request a recording of the assessment, but need to do so in advance, as it is too late on the day. It may mean a delay in your assessment appointment, to have the right equipment available.
As far as I am aware, it should not be held against you.

But by far the most useful thing a claimant can do is to study the descriptors and think carefully what they mean and how you fit them.
Concentrate on reliablility i.e within a reasonable timescale, as often as required, and safely.
eg If walking a certain distance ( 200m ) leaves you so exhausted that you cannot repeat that distance that day or for several days, you cannot do it reliably.
Unfortunately pain and exhaustion are not always visible, nor is psychological distress.

You can take your own recording equipment as far as I know, as long as you inform the assessor.
There is a case of a man whose recording was used, as it showed the assessors blatant lies about his ability.
I think perhaps he hadnt got permission to have recorded the session.

MissAdventure

Well, I am intending to be a bit less submissive this time.
I have to remember my manners, and be polite, and i will be, but i will not be beaten down like last time.

I had not seen the four posts previous to my immediately previous post to this one as I was preparing that post.

So there was a previous interview.

I am surprised at that override being possible.

I don't know what the doctor put on your sick note but my understanding - again going back to how it was - that what the doctor put on a sicknote for a patient overwhelmed by situations is Anxiety State.

Until reading your post I did not know anyone could just overrule a doctor. I think (though not certain) that in the old days even a doctor at a DHSS assessmrent could not just overide a patient's doctor, the DHSS doctor contacts the patient'doctor to discuss the patient's situation, though that might just be a professional courtesy, done in practice but not obligatory.

I am wondering if the Human Rights Act applies to the contractor. That could be a matter of legal discussion/legal argument.

The reason I say that is because UK government departments and local government are subject to acting in accordance with the Human Rights Act.

Some years ago I remember reading of an ongoing legal issue, I do not know how, or even if, it was ever resolved.

It could be a precedent relevant here.

The issue was that a Local Authority has to arrange for some people to be provided with care home ccomodation.

The Local Authority is required to act in accordance with te Human Rights Act.

The Local Authority contracted for a company to provide, for a fee, such accomodation including food and so on.

The question was Is the company therefore subject to the Human Rights Act on the basis that the Local Authority is so obliged and that it is argued that therefore the protection that the Human Rights Act gives the patient cannot be not included in how the company operates.

---

I am a bit hesitant to mention this in case it upsets you, but I looked on YouTube and searched for

Work Capability Assessment

www.youtube.com/

There are quite a lot of videos. I have looked at a few.

Some are by people from Citzen's Advice and the like.

Some are stories directly from patients of bad experiences with the assessors.

Though some are from some years ago and the assessors might have changed.

But I mention them so that it is your decision whether to look at them or not.

By the way, if an assessor says "Speaking personally, blah blah blah" just temember that the assessor is not there in a personal capacity. I know officials sometimes say things like that if they are constrained by rules not to do what they personally think. Maybe to influence you.

I did think once, that if any of them ever said that to me again I would ask them whether they think Brexit should have happened. If they then say, that's nothing to do with it, to then reply, Well you said you were speaking personally so you are therefore just some passing stranger stopped to have a chat.

I have had a previous assessment, yes.

It was after my daughter died, and of course, I was able to walk, prepare food and all of the other things.
I just needed a bit more time.
I decided to just live off my meagre savings and give myself a few more weeks off.

This, however, is a physical problem (a host of them!) so a very different kettle of fish.

Still, that is some way in the future yet, so we shall see.

MissAdventure

You can take your own recording equipment as far as I know, as long as you inform the assessor.
There is a case of a man whose recording was used, as it showed the assessors blatant lies about his ability.
I think perhaps he hadnt got permission to have recorded the session.

I remember that when Gordon Brown was Prime Minister he rang someone about something and the person recorded it without telling him before recording.

As a result Ofcom would not allow the broadcasters to include the recording in a news broadcast.

So I am wondering if not notifying recording before recording could make the recording unable to be used as evidence. Though not the same thing.

I think the man I mentioned had his recording taken into account as a one off exception, in light of the assessors huge lies about him.

My thinking, if I really wanted a recording, would be to request the DWP one then inform them on the day that I was also doing my own in case the one I have requested got lost.
Making sure to say that while recording.

I've no idea how that would go but its what I'd try.

That’s correct Star Dreamer, if you are going to record a conversation you should tell the other person before doing it.

I said earlier you have the right to request a recording but they are not obliged to make one.
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/418925/wca-audio-recording-policy-march_2015.pdf

You can make your own recording but must have requested permission first. It must conform to standards. You must also produce a copy at the end. Not many of us have the ability to do that!

It can be taken to Tribunal, but the panel are interested in hearing what the claimant has got to say. They will already have a copy of the assessor’s report( so will you, together with a copy of all the paperwork of your claim). They want to see if you meet the qualifying descriptors.

There is always the possibility of making a complaint about an assessor, but that is quite separate from the Tribunal. A complaint will be to the company providing the assessors. It will not be part of the decision making process. Just to be clear.

I would make sure I didnt breach the rules at all, in case I risked being ejected or had to reapply.

Regarding the seventeen activities.

www.disabilityrightsuk.org/wca-limited-capability-work-assessment-descriptors

I have been having a look through the seventeen activities trying to do a self-assessment and thinking about how an assessor could assess someone for those activities.

I noted the time when I started 13:17 today

I noted the time when I finished 13:39

Even assuming a fair and conscienscious assessor following the rules as stated and assuming an honest person whose situation is being assessed, I cannot follow how some of the points can be sensibly assessed.

For example, Activity 1.

How could an assessor decide that someone could or could not be awarded a score of 6?

Activity 2 can depend greatly on the chair for some people. The height of the chair and whether the chair has arms or not and how solid is the chair.

Activity 3 seems easy to assess if the person whose work capability is being assessed is being honest.

Activity 15. Getting about. But that is under Part 2: Mental, cognitive and intellectual functions. So what if one is fine mentally, cognitively and intellectually but one needs help to get anywhere? Does havimg a taxi count as needing help? What if it is the community volunteer driver service where they accompany you from the car to the dental surgery and wait for you and bring you back as one transaction?

Would someone who gets an overall total of 9 but that 9 is from Activity 17 be regarded as fit for work? Would you want to be in the same workplace?

I need help to get anywhere.
I can no longer catch the bus that stops right outside the hospital because I cannot (and I mean really cannot) walk from the bus stop to the hospital entrance.

That is one of my issues.

Thank you for putting so much thought into all of this

I just popped on to say that I have had my reminder text about the appointment they never made in the first place.

I will update after that.

Good luck. It’s about time some came your way.?

Thank you.
You have all been (and are still being) very kind.

As you deserve.

MissAdventure wrote I can no longer catch the bus that stops right outside the hospital because I cannot (and I mean really cannot) walk from the bus stop to the hospital entrance.

The problem I see is that Activity 15 Getting About is linked to Part 2: Mental, cognitive and intellectual functions

So for the situation in which you are the situation might be assessed under Activity 1.

> Mobilising unaided by another person with or without a walking stick, manual wheelchair or other aid if such aid is normally or could reasonably be worn or used.

So I think it would be advisible to be prepared to be asked if you could do that if you used either or both a walking stick or a wheelchair.

Suppose it were to be suggested to you that you would be fine if you had a taxi and a wheelchair.

Please note it is not someone being in a wheelchair with someone else pushing them, and it is not a powered wheelchair, so if you could not self-propel the wheelchair then you could not do it that way either.

A self-propelled manual wheelchair seems to me to be for people who are basically strong in body and arms yet have problems with one or both legs.

I have written that because I am trying to protect you in case they try to glibly suggest a wheelchair and might have taken you by surprise if I had not written that and thus drawn it to your attention.

No, I couldn't self propel.
I have not the strength anymore.
It is the whole body that is buggered, frankly.
I think my upper body strength is as bad as my lower.

MissAdventure

No, I couldn't self propel.
I have not the strength anymore.
It is the whole body that is buggered, frankly.
I think my upper body strength is as bad as my lower.

So sorry you are having to go through all this, it’s just not right ?????

It's just "the system", and I appreciate I can't just expect to be given money on my say-so.

I find it quite unbelievable myself that I have suddenly become so limited.
It feels sudden, at least, but thinking back, perhaps I have been growing steadily unwell for a few years.

StarDreamer, I would have PMd you but you are not set up to receive Pms.

I know you are so tired of all this, it’s a constant battle, but Is there any point in contacting your MP giving details of what you have had to put up with, diary fashion? Anyone reading it would realise so much has gone horribly wrong.
Sometimes if an MP contacts whichever department, their intervention can get things moving. I so hope things start to get better fir you. x

Well, there are so many angles to it all.
Then one department not knowing what the other said, being discharged from hospital without being told what is wrong.
There is no one person to lay any blame on, as such.
Just awful admin and communication really.